Time to choose a new company car. Not due to change until October 22nd (time to sort out the rust and scratches then) but have to have an order in by 22nd August.
One car I liked was the new Mondeo TDCi Titanium (not out as a model just yet) but the monthly costs are high on the new Mondeo via Leaseplan. A Ghia 2.0 TDCi around £95pm more than say an Avensis 2.2D T4. Before tax of course. Assume the Titanium around the same cost as the Ghia as the list price is the same.
Two other models I am considering are:
- Toyota Avensis 2.2D T4 or TR (latter more expensive!)
- Mazda 6 2.0D 143 TS2
Briefly drove an Avensis on local roads and it was okay. But bland inside and out and wife not so keen from the brochure pictures. I have drive a petrol Mazda 6 and liked it and better to look at inside and out IMHO compared to the Avensis. But a lot lower spec for the money.
I realise both the Avensis and 6 are replaced next year but my car due to be replaced on 22 October.
I did a search for Avensis on here and found a couple of threads. But not many so either few of us have an Avensis or no grumbles? Try a search for a Mondeo TDCi instead!
So opinions on the Avensis and 6 welcome. A company car so CO2 and list price important. Alternative suggestions welcome but do not want it to cost more than the Mondeo if possible and that is taxed at 18% for Benefit in Kind (Euro IV pre 2006).
Marques available are:
- Chevrolet (right!)
- Ford
- Jaguar
- Land Rover
- Lexus
- Mazda
- Saab
- Vauxhall
- Volvo
Obviously a limit on what I can get as max, e.g. the only Lexus I could get is an IS220d at an additional cost compared to now of £104pm.
Cheers
Rob
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S40 or V50 2.0D ?
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would steer clear of the Lexus ..the diesel has a few issues!
www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopi...=
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Will check that link as the same engine is in the Avensis 2.2! Thanks.
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Okay read that thread and it surprises me... the Avensis 2.2 T4 was almost silent and smooth to drive. Never got above 30mph because the dealer came to me after my call for a test drive (as a company driver). Roads local were gridlocked due to demolition of a bridge on the A6. But took it around some local roads, over speed humps etc. and very smooth. It was the 150PS engine though.
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You'd have thought as options but basic monthly cost of the S40 at it's cheapest with at least some toys and diesel is about £360pm. Okay could get an S40 1.6s for £290 but the 1.6D S is £360!
Likewise V50 1.6S is £328 and the V50 1.6D S is £368!
In comparison an Avensis T180 is £326pm. Hmmm. Old models spring to mind but is the Avensis so bad apart from being bland/boring. At least it's British built.
I could go for some Vectra 5drs at an okay price but poor rear leg room, hate the indicators but do drive them at times and I'd... even prefer a Toyota to that. Sorry.
Avensis is looking bland and boring but highly spec'd and low cost. Someone convince me to not take it?
Cheers Cheddar.
PS Can pay up an extra third above by current allowance of £335 which is pre-tax but want to economise. Done this before with the Passat 1.8T Sport which I paid up the max.
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Hi Rob, I had an Avensis D4D T4 for two years as a company car. O4 reg with 114bhp but it was plenty fast enough for me. Lots of kit inc sat nav. A boot with an echo! rear seat room is vast. When moving house for my son, with the saets folded down I got a double mattress in the back lying flat! No breakdowns or repairs and on one leisurely run from Gloucester achieved 62mpg. No complaints. Get one. Incidentally, now on a mileage scheme and bought my own car. Looked hard for a good Avensis but could not find one to suit so I bought a Skoda Superb 1.9tdi. Excellent and even bigger inside than the Avensis, but no hatchback. But well worth a good look. Best of luck. Concrete.
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I've tried the Avensis in T180 form and as a T3-X with the 150 diesel engine. I was impressed with the space, solidity and general refinement of both but I preferred the 150 - quite quick enough for me and good value as a private buy. It is dull inside, though - for me, the thing the 'premium' makers do best is to offer more choice in the look of the interior. Toyotas are no less well made than Audis or Volvos, but they are rather monotonously black or dark grey inside; some may like that - I don't.
Beyond that, it's not clear from your introduction what your priorities are, but I'm guessing you want a hatchback, since you've picked out the makes on your list that offer one. Have you done the BIK sums, though? You say you want to pay no more than you do for your Mondeo, but I think the Avensis will have a BIK of 23% (166 g/km and with the Euro IV discount removed) and the others on your list will be similar. Others may have a clearer view (I've been out of the company car loop for a couple of years now) but I suspect you'll have to choose something smaller if you want to keep your costs the same.
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Have done the BIK calculations. The 2.2D 150PS Avensis emits 156g/km of CO2 and therefore falls in the 21% bracket (including the 3% diesel charge). The Mondeo is only 19% so I'd pay more tax than present but I'd not be paying up the small amount per month but instead getting a little back. End result should be the same. The Mazda emits more so will be 23% and is a little more per month for the lease cost too.
So if it were between the Avensis and Mazda 6... could I live with the more bland car inside and out? I'd be better off with the Avensis and have more toys but the Mazda6 probably drives better and the inside is better designed in my opinion. Only I can answer this one though.
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Have you tried the 6? I find it a bit noisy. the ride a little firm.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Not tried it yet. Had a petrol one as a hire car once when my car serviced. But only went to the tip with an old washing machine in it. One reason to coincide a service and hire car and insist on an estate ;-)
I must say I am surprised I like the Avensis. Sitting in the inside it's not as bad as I envisaged from the brochure pictures. Might get a test drive next week for a bit longer and see if I could live with it. At the end of the day it is only a car and as long as it's comfortable etc.
What I still do not understand is why Toyota (and Lexus) interiors so far behind the competition. Even Ford have realised this.
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Went for a quick drive in a Mazda6 earlier this afternoon. Only a quick blast down the motorway and some local roads. Need longer test drive which I will arrange.
First impressions is the interior is a lot nicer to sit in than the Toyota Avensis. Small things like the location of the buttons for controlling the mirrors etc. and the look of the centre console. I remember I liked the 6 when I last swapped cars but it was not available on the car scheme then. Engine nowhere near as quiet as the Avensis though - that was near silent. But no worse and probably a little better than the TDCi in the Mondeo.
But not quite as well spec'd as the Avensis T4/TR. Although having said that I could end up with a sunroof instead of sat nav and I miss a sunroof. And I use TomTom for satnav and speed cameras and the Avensis unit will not do speed cameras and I like TomTom.
So time to sort out some extended test drives :-)
When I showed a picture of the Avensis to my better half she made a face - i.e. she did not like it.
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>>When I showed a picture of the Avensis to my better half she made a face <<
Better halves do that.
Make sure you heed the warning though.
My brother is selling his brand new mototbike - a fireblade CR1000RR (I think) after just 1000 miles.
He did not heed the warning - apparently "do what the hell you like" didn't mean what he thought it meant.
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This made me smile when looking at specification of the Mazda6... under the Performance and Economy section it says "Recommended Fuel". For the two diesels it says "Diesel"... now what else might I use if not recommended :-)
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This made me smile when looking at specification of the Mazda6... under the Performance and Economy section it says "Recommended Fuel". For the two diesels it says "Diesel"... now what else might I use if not recommended :-)
Oil from your local chippie seems to be gaining popularity by the smell of it.
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Engine nowhere near as quiet as the Avensis though - that was near silent. But no worse and probably a little better than the TDCi in the Mondeo.
Interesting, when I drove a T180 Avensis last September ........
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=44773&...f
......... I though it was as quiet though no quieter than the Mondeo, perhaps slightly noisier at idle. yes it was quiet in 6th a 70 mph however it would not really accelerate in 6th at that speed because of the ludicrously high 40 ish mph/1000 and was much happier and still very refined in 5th.
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I think RTJ says somewhere else that he's yet to exceed 30 mph in an Avensis, so it's perhaps not a fair comparison!
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WDB missed your post earlier. No done no more than 30mph but the engine was silent. Running into the usual lease car issues:
- Lease company will not allow me to nominate a dealer (did get round this in 2003)
- Dealers fleat department will not lend me a car if they are not going to get the business
- Can only get a total of 3 test drives via Leaseplan
But if I check out my wife's thoughts, three long test drives might be enough. Or I can force Leaseplan to budge. Especially as current car is rusting and a new build to order Mazda 6 is 4 months. So order at last moment on 22nd August and not get a car until late November. Plenty of time for some new suspension bushes and a third EGR valve. And new doors.
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Can't say much about the Mondeo or Avensis as I haven't driven either; not struck, though, on the looks of the latter.
I don't cover many miles these days, but have owned a 6 for nearly five years and will probably buy its replacement in due course.
Clk Sec
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I'm starting to warm towards the Mazda6 on style alone. I'd save money on the Avensis but... it's boring.
A T3-X is of similar spec to the Mazda6 Sport but I'd be better of in the wallet by about £45 each month with the former :-{ Or over £500pa. My wife and I need to take that into consideration. That's a short break away somewhere in Italy! Then again I could take a basic Aygo and be better off by nearly £200pm! Not doing that of course.
But I'd not get a T3-X I'd then want the T4 which makes the difference less than £30pm and I don't need a Sport so the TS2 makes that a £16pm difference. And the sport would be because I like auto lights and wipers and would like Xenons.
But the smaller cars choice does then have me thinking.... downsize and put up with a bit smaller car most of the time and hire a nice big one when really needed which would be occasional.... hmmm. Interesting thought. Then again the Focus ST-3 is way more expensive per month than the Mazda6 and new Mondeo.
Also now realising that the 2.0D Sport version of the 6 is not much more than the TS2. It's £5 more per month before tax and not that much more list price because it comes with metallic paint (£325) which I'd go for anyway. And thrown in are Xenon lights, auto lights and auto wipers. Not sure I need a spoiler though.
I assume Mazda6 is reliable? But the dealer is no more than 2 miles away.
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>>>I assume Mazda6 is reliable?
Mine certainly has been.
Clk Sec
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I know Mondeos outsell things like Toyota Avensis (or do they?) and Mazda6 over here but what strikes me is there are far more posts on the Mondeo TDCi compared to the Avensis and Mazda6. So assume either far more Mondeos or the others more reliable.
Latest for my Mondeo is rusting rear doors which will be fun the sort before the end of lease. Leaseplan are thinking about it. Because they did not pay for bodywork/paint checks so the corrosion warranty is void :-) Well saved £10pa for the car then.
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The Mazda still looks a 'new' car & pretty smart, too.
& the way they bring out their 'Limited Editions', chances are you'll be able to get hold of a better/well equiped model, for the same £$£$ as the others.
VB
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"the way they bring out their 'Limited Editions', chances are you'll be able to get hold of a better/well equiped model, for the same £$£$"
Like the special edition Avensis TR, the special edition Mazda's cost more than the standard editions! Assume lease company getting discount on normal cars but not the special editions... oh well.
I liked the 6 in 2003 and still like it now. After longer tests drives and the all important input of my wife and step-children (18 and 21 soon) will decide.....
Or I could get a Lexus IS 220d and be out of pocket ;-) But hear gearbox ratios poor and the spec will be spartan.
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I have to say the 6 has a bit more visual exctiment than the Mondrearo and Avensleep
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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How do the X-Type and 9-3 fair on the old lease scheme?
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Whereas say the Toyota's
Avensis 2.2D T4 = £305pm
Avensis 2.2D T180 = £326pm
Then the cheapest of the Saabs and Jag's:
- Saab 9-3 1.8 Airflow = £365
- Saab 9-3 1.9TDi 150 Airflow = £387
- X-Type 2.0D S = £411
so would not consider them on cost. Would not consider them anyway. Do not want another MKIV Mondeo or a Vectra. Actually I would take another Mondeo but not going to get one in October.
Could also get a Vectra 1.9D Elite 5 door for £308pm. Or even the 3.0CDTi SRi for £335. But don't want one. I'd even prefer the Avensis I think.
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Whats the signum priced like? usually get good lease deals on them.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Autocar's test:
1st: Mondeo 2.0TDCI Edge 5dr
2nd: Passatt 2.0TDI S 4dr
3rd: Vectra 1.9 CDTi Exclusiv 5dr
4th: Avensis 2.2D-4D T3-X 4dr
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The Avensis T180 looks like real VFM.
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>>But the smaller cars choice does then have me thinking.... downsize and put up with a bit smaller car most of the time and hire a nice big one when really needed which would be occasional.... hmmm. Interesting thought. Then again the Focus ST-3 is way more expensive per month than the Mazda6 and new Mondeo.>>
How about a Focus Ghia 2.0 TDCi with all the goodies, perhaps an estate, also the facelift C-Max looks very nice.
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Do not want a C-Max (It think but maybe take another look) and have costed out the Focus estate. A basic 2.0TDCi Ghia is only £277pm! Leg room in rear for occasional use (step-sons tall) might be an issue. And not sure about a Focus. ST-2 or ST-3 maybe excused! But costly on emissions.
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I know there's no Ghia C-Max I meant Titanium.
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Bearing in mind there's a new Avensis (and Mazda6 and Citroen C5 and ....) next year then deals likely to be good. Strange that the Avensis TR (same spec as a T4 basically) is more expensive. But that's due to discounts for Leaseplan I guess.
Trouble with the T180 is emissions and higher list price. Torque curve in the brochure suggests extra performance is short lived maybe. A 150PS engine fine by me.
A Signum Design 1.9TDi 150PS Design would be £321 but the 5dr Vectra Design with the same engine is £280. Even the Vectra estate of same spec is £294. Maybe I shouldn't write off the Vectra as the interior better than the Avensis??
As for the Avensis, I think the estate looks better and not too expensive, e.g. 2.2D T4 estate is £318pm.
Wife has final say....
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The 2.0 in the Focus and C-Max is cracking, quoted as 134bhp but usually measured as over 150, leg room good in estate and v-good in C-Max.
Vectra also due to be replaced.
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"Vectra also due to be replaced"
They're all being replaced :-) Not a good time to swap a car as they are not all available yet and the new Mondeo proves lease costs high for now.
On the Mondeo, I will call the release manager of the Mondeo in the UK to ask why lease costs so high. I know they want to reduce discounts but if a Mondeo is £80+ extra per month then few will choose it. Not sure what good will come of it but I want to follow up on the display literature in dealers for the Mondeo that Ford UK has sent out that is actually incorrect. Hence knowing this particular number because he called me back and even asked my opinion on the car the other week. He seemend genuine. Some above in this thread (TVM?) also suggested Mondeo lease costs dropped so want to be sure I do not discount just yet.
I have to have a firm order in before 22nd August.... but a factory build Mazda6 can take 6 months. Still hoping my Mondeo fails it's MOT next week (not due yet really) as Leaseplan are losing money on this particular unlucky car.
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Mazda6 next year also a lot bigger.... probably related to the Mondeo. Which somewhat ironically all the car mags said in 2002/2003 the next Mondeo was looking like it was based on the Mazda6 chassis. Oh well. Parking bays have all gotten so much bigger as have car parks like the one under the Ramada in Manchester (or whatever it's called this week).
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My opinions as a private buyer ...so probably not too relevant to this discussion....I have a 56-plate facelift 2.2 D4-D T3-X, owned from new.
The Avensis makes a great buy, very happy with mine, which was chosen after a lot of consideration of the competition. Styling - don't agree that it is bland at all, fairly distinctive in my opinion, that doesn't mean I think it is attractive - reasonable from the front and side, plain awkward from behind. The 2.2 150 is a bit of a gem for a diesel, far quieter at idle than most (Honda excepted), and completely un-diesel like beyond idle speed - smoother than many petrols I have driven.
Ride quality is pretty good, cruising noise levels are very good, but the lack of wind and engine noise means that tyre roar is noticable on duff surfaces. Handling is ok, A-roads it handles just fine, but a Mondeo is a far more pleasant thing on roundabouts and around town. On the other hand, mine has had two minor front end accidents, I'm reasonably sure that it doesn't drive as well as it did prior to them (but could be paranoia).
Build quality seems decent, nothing has broken, fallen off or started rattling yet (15k miles). It doesn't have the indestructible feel that Japanese built Toyotas had 15-20 years ago, but I get the feeling that nothing will break during the first few years.
Fuel economy - 50mpg is easily achievable on my 30 mile each way (22 miles Mway) commute, 55mpg when dawdling.
I will probably buy another (the replacement model), but if I could change only one thing about the car it would be the CD/radio, which is simply rubbish. May not seem a big issue, but it is the one and only thing that would force me to consider buying something else (and may well do so).
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bristolmotorspeedway, I said bland but my wife's face screwed up whem shown the Avensis. First last Tuesday and then last night. There's a clue there :-) One reason fo thinking of estate.
But we both need to know monthly cost.... or I do. Or I will get the Lexus.
Appreciate this feedback. I came at the brief test drive thinking it would not be liked... but it was.
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I came at the brief test drive thinking it would not be liked... but it was.
Same here. Funnily enough I had two test drives. Not long after the 03 model launched I had a drive in 1.8 T4. Disliked it completely, mainly because of the steering feel. This time around I discovered that the 1.8s have electric power steering whilst the other models had hydraulic. Now needing a diesel I decided to have a go in a 2.2 and was pleasantly surprised by how much better it was with the HPS.
Also, this time last year I distinctly remember telling my Dad, 'yes the Avensis seems a good car, but not sure I could live with something that looks like that!'. The facelift definitely improved things in my opinion (although making it less distinctive), and it has grown on me more and more in the time I have owned it - I actually think they look quite classy when seen in traffic. The rear is still a mess of course, and I completely agree with you that the tourer is by the neatest looking model.
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"I completely agree with you that the tourer is by the neatest looking model."
I think Toyota UK agree too. The brochure contains pictures of the tourer almost exlusively.
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