I?d be interested, as usual, to seek the counsel of the BR.
Yesterday, I plucked up the courage to seek permission from the Household Financial Committee (ie SWMBO) to replace the family W reg petrol Vectra (105k miles, clutch possibly coming to end of life, brake disks thinning, MOT in September and a new cam belt at 120k) with a newer means of diesel transport. Much to my surprise, the request was granted in principle! Wohoo! So, here?s the issue.
As a commuter knocking up 480 miles per week, we need a diesel car which will waft me in comfort and safety and will double up as the family car for weekends and holidays for the two of us, a nutty 4 year old boy and a more sedate 1 year old girl.
I?m currently thinking of a 12 month old 150 bhp Vectra or Signum Elite, but can?t figure out the practical differences between the two. From the research undertaken thus far, they appear to have the same chassis, engine and interior? Is it this very reason that has led to the Signum to be considered a rather odd placed car in the market place?
I?d like to try out a 1-2 year old Volvo S60 D (SWMBO likes Volvos too), but this is probably outside of my budget of £13kish plus px ? isn?t it? I have also thought about a TDCi Mondeo, but the 155 bhp versions may, again, be outside of the budget. Any others that I should be considering?
As usual, many comments on the above.
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Top Turkey - the fastest hands in Brum
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Signum is a Vectra with a longer wheelbase and only four seats plus funny rear-end styling. I'm sure it must appeal to someone but I'm not quite sure who.
The Volvo can easily be had in your budget if you don't mind starting with a big miler to start with. There's one at Car Giant that is currently on 79k miles - so if you run it to 200k over five years it could either be very cheap or very expensive at £9k.
tinyurl.com/3xn7jo is the cheapest low-mileage car - £14k before haggling. £13k could be achievable for cash.
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We've discussed the merits (and there are many) of the S60 diesel elsewhere - a quick forum search should turn up the thread. I've had mine for four years and can think of nothing better for long solo journeys.
Whether it works as a family car is less clear and may depend on how tall you are. It's quiet, smooth, comfortable and has excellent climate control, but the rear seat has a long cushion (many makers shorten the cushion by 50mm or so to give the visual illusion of more space), and if you have the front seat back as far as I do (I'm 6'5") it leaves a rather small gap into which a child on a booster has to put his feet. (My boys are 4 and 6 and can't yet get their feet under the front seats.) I can only suggest you try it and see if it works for you.
Otherwise, the only major gripe is the boot, which is capacious (three full-size cricket bags) but has to be accessed through a 350mm-high letterbox, which precludes carrying anything bulky or awkward. Apparently this - along with the lack of a rear wiper, so I can't see to reverse in the rain - proclaims my status as a Prestige Compact Executive, which is something Vectra and Mondeo owners, with their high-lifting, electrically-wiped tailgates, have to live without.
If you like it, though, don't be afraid of buying an older one if that's what works for your budget. My 52 is wearing well - and won't need a timing belt until 96,000 miles - but is now worth no more than £8,000 or so. I bought mine at two years old for £11,000 when I left the job it went with, so you should get a reasonable choice for £13,000. You might even find a V70 within budget, which would solve the boot problem, if not the back seat one.
Enjoy looking, though - Volvo dealers seem to be nice people, and their coffee's not bad either.
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Cheers for the adivce on the Volvo. A friend's father knows someone at a Volvo dealership (??!!) and suggests that he can lay his hands on a 2005 05 reg D5 Sport Geartronic with 18,000 miles for just over 15k. Seems good to me. We're not ready to commit to a deal just yet (waiting for funds to be released etc), but this seems a better purchase (albeit at the loss of sensible access to the boot) than the typical repmobile.
Thanks again.
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Top Turkey - the fastest hands in Brum
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The Signum has two + a bit seating arrangement at the back, with seats that fold flat and recline and move forwards and backwards to increase boot space/increase legroom as required. Some have the travel assistant (fridge + storage) in the middle back seat too.
I.e. the Signum is more flexible than the Vectra hatch with some of the practicality of the estate, but without the big bulky back-end.
With minimum legroom the Signum has a boot almost as big as the Vectra estate, with maximum legroom the Signum has a boot almost as big as the Vectra hatch. Works quite well.
Later Signums are generally a higher spec than the Vectra equivalent, with all models getting colour sat-nav as standard. However, if you want an Elite, they're both much the same spec.
If you're going to get the diesel make it a choice between the 1.9 CDTI 150 (red TI, 16v) or the 3.0 V6 CDTI, both cracking engines. Don't bother with the lower spec 1.9 CDTI 120 (8v), it's not much cheaper and doesn't offer any better economy.
If you're thinking of the Volvo with the D5 engine (185ps version), then do make sure you also try a Vectra/Signum with the 3.0 V6 CDTI, both offer about the same performance and economy and is a better comparison than the 1.9 CDTI, good as it is.
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Signums are funny-looking things, in theory executive hatchbacks, but in practice had no appeal to me due to the weird rattley behind
I'd get a Diesel Accord
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"weird rattley behind"
Eh?
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The motoring press is generally agreed that the Signum is a dull drive. Vectra is better but still not Mondeo. However, that may not be your priority, TT. The Signum's positioning in the market is hard to see, which has made it unattractive to buyers. That means high depreciation, which means very good VFM used.
If you only need four seats (and never five) and it's got enough luggage space, consider a Signum. Otherwise it's the Vectra. (IMO)
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"weird rattley behind" Eh?
there's a rattley fridge type thing, which sounds nice, but is actually completely daft, occupying the middle seat. Better off with a refrigerated glove compartment IMO
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It can be removed, besides it's not standard equipment any more and hasn't been for about 2.5 years!
And the glovebox is air-conditioned, so that seems to have sorted that one out! ;)
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One of the downsides of the Signum which stopped me from buying one is like all estates you have a pull over canopy rather than a parcel shelf. Pull the cover across and straight away you're telling potential thieves you are hiding something worth nicking.
Also comparing boot space of the Signum against the boot space in my Vectra (up to the window line), I would say mine was larger - which I put down to the Signum having more leg room for the rear passengers and thus the rear seats are further back.
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The Signum rear seats have adjustment, at their forward position they give slightly less legroom than the Vectra, at their rearward position they give considerably more legroom than the Vectra. When comparing boot space between Signum and Vectra you need to note whether the Signum seats are forward or back.
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According to a Vauxhall specialist I used for my brakes, the Signum is now discontinued (sales flop) so you may get better VFM than on a Vectra, which is still a current model. I personally like the look of the Signum but it's all a matter of taste I guess. Elite is a nice spec with a more comfy ride than SRi or GSi. In retrospect I would have preffered an Elite to my SRi.
I looked at an ex demo S60 2.0T before I bought my Vectra. IMO It's a cracking looking, well built car with a bit of individuality. What put me off were :
Claustrophobic rear area/sloping rear roof
Small boot opening
Raised centre console giving hemmed in feeling to driver
Belt driven petrol engine
Plus, Volvo dealers charge a LOT more for servicing...
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Belt driven petrol engine
Err, it's petrol and it's belt driven, sure, but this well designed and pretty well bomb proof engine has a genuine 8 year / 100,000 mile cambelt change interval and will in fact usually reliably exceed even these high values without risk of breakage.
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I do believe you and it is a great car, I'd just rather have a chain driven engine any day of the week
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All Vauxhalls with cambelts have a recommended change interval of 40,000 or 4 years, with the exception of the 1.6 8v engine which is 80,000 or 8 years.
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The FIAT/GM 1.9 diesels have 80,000 to 100,000 mile change intervals, depending on who you ask. Only the Vauxhall units have 40,000 mile intervals.
BTW in response to comments way above, the Signum is not discontinued. It's still very much available.
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I know it's available but are Vauxhall still building them?
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I know it's available but are Vauxhall still building them?
I suspect not. When I was looking at prices for used Signums on a couple of well known car supermarkets, the drop down box for the year seemed to only go up to 06. I also don't recall seeing an 07 plates on the roads either.
Of course, that could just be a sign of their popularity more than anything else.
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Top Turkey - the fastest hands in Brum
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They are still available for personal order on the vauxhall website.
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Take a look on autotrader (using HJs link to the left;) , there's lots of 56 plate and 07 plate Signums.
If Vauxhall have really stopped making them, I'd love to see the proof!
Whether or not there will be a Signum-B when the Vectra-D arrives next year, is anybodies guess. I would say probably not.
If it was RWD and came with a range of V6 & V8 petrols and diesels then maybe I'd buy one.. The current V6 CDTI is quite tasty, but needs a touch more power to make it competitive with the likes of Mercs current 3.0 diesel. Drove one yesterday in a Chrysler 300C - wow! Loved it.
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. The current V6 CDTI is quite tasty but needsa touch more power to make it competitive with the likes of Mercs current 3.0 diesel. Drove one yesterday in a Chrysler 300C - wow! Loved it.
I've been trying to tell you lot this, for ages :)
MTC
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whats that MTC? must have missed it.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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whats that MTC? must have missed it. ------------------------------
Do a forum search for smug cat in big black car :)
MTC
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I've seen the light - material quality and finish wasn't the best, but who cares? That 300C has grin factor through and through. Looking at it: :D, sittiing in it: :D, driving it: :D. What a wonderful beast!
This one was in silver, so I only looked like a part-time drug dealer!! LOL!
I've started saving up for one already! :)
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