My son in laws 1.8 petrol engine on his Rover 75 blew up a little while ago.
A completely reconditioned engines was sourced from an advertised engine reconditioner,
I went with him to collect it. They said they get seven or eight of these engine a week to do and advised him to get rid of the car when the engine was fitted.
There was a 12 month warranty subject to several provisions including that a new water pump and thermostat must be fitted and the radiator to be checked by the fitting garage. An oil change after 1000 miles and too many more to mention.
It looked pristine on collection wrapped in a kind of Clingfilm.
The local independent who has a good reputation fitted the engine adhering to all conditions. The cost of the engine was just under £1000 and another £900 to have it installed.
At 950 miles the engine just stopped. No rise on the temperature gauge whatsoever. Contacted the engine supplier who said to have it flatbedded to their premises. I should mention that during this mileage the son in law had checked the oil and water level almost to a point of being neurotic. He even checked it before returning from his destinations.
Before it went the local independent who fitted it had a look and removing the spark plugs said one of the pistons appeared to be angled over. He also stated that there was no oil in the water and visa versa.
The engine builder received the car and reported that the car had overheated and a heat tag (whatever that is)on the engine proved it. Consequently the warrant was void.
It cost another £150.00 for them to hand it back (for inspection costs) to be flatbedded home.
The SIL has a friend who owns a engineering workshop and his men stripped it and he reported that there was many faults, including a wrong piston fitted, and a gudgeon pin had come loose and had gouged deep into the cylinder liner and that there was no doubt that it was a bodge job and that is what the assessor will find.
He said he would contact the reconditioner himself to tell him of his findings before he bought in a independent assessor, to give him an opportunity to rectify the situation. He received nothing but foul abuse and said his heat tag would stand up in court and see you there.
That is the situation at present but my SIL is determined to obtain satisfaction either through trading standards or small claims court.
Incidentally it didn?t occur to me to check if they were member of their trade association until after. And no they were not.
Any general advice on the best way to proceed to recover costs from these people and procedures to adhere to.
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check with trading standards 1st, if trading standards has a list as long as your arm I would put it down to experience. I had a customer who had a very simular experience & the case became very expensive with expert witnesess and the company changed trading names a week before the court appearence & the stress caused my client severe distress.
I have to say that if you fit manufactures engines you do get a back up service.
Unless you saw the heat tag 1st and photographed it I doubt you will be able to prove it didn't overheat
Did you pay by credit card for the engine? if so contact the card company, they will only take cards if there reputable. If you had to pay by cheque or cash I think you have your answer.
You could try and negotiate a bare cost repair & if they offered to rebuild engine for 250ish I would run with it.However I do wish you luck & hope you suceed.
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VEGE engines are good - wouldn't trust any other apart from a factory supplied one.
No cheap ways to recondition an engine, IMHO.
Sorry to hear , good idea to post first - to get advice on where to go etc though
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">I doubt you will be able to prove it didn't overheat<"
The OP doesn't have to, the supplier has to prove that it did overheat as a result of misuse or failure of the cooling system (or similar). Can the supplier prove that the heat tag was fitted to the engine prior to the failure? I The best weapon available to the OP is a documented, photographed (or even video) record of the dismantling process, otherwise it will be an uphill struggle. Learn and buy a Mondeo. I've experienced the delights of engine reconditioners, never again, I'll either DIY (unlikely for the tintop) or scrap the thing.
Heat tags : www.palmerwahl.com/catalog_home.php?cat=5&catl=15
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The credit card idea was a good one and I had forgotten this one. Unfortunately he paid in cash so its a non starter.
The Engineering shop have taken photos as they dismantled so thats in hand.
I was thinking of small claims court rather than main civil courts. However they they do look a rogue firm now and according to our engineer there was no discussion with their boss but simply a foul mouthed response to anything he said. We had discussed them having a track record.
The assessor will be making a report so we will have to decde then on the best approach.
The SIL wanted the car fixed quickly and obviously and with hindsight we should have gone down a different path in getting the car back on the road.
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not FER?
dont go
nothing more to say really
sorry
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I had one several years ago and it was a disaster and not cheap either. It seems all this firm did was get engines from scrap cars and without doing much stick it in your car. Of course complaints were fobbed off and then the firm disappears only to surface elsewhere with a diiferent name. I think
if you need a new engine perhaps that is what you should get.
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we have a VERRRY good local radio consumer guy, even if you're not nearby, (Beds/Herts/Bucks) call him - he doesn't do it like Watchdog & follows everything through - FAIRLY.
95.5fm 10am-1.30pm weekdays bbc.co.uk/threecounties Stephen Rhodes 08459 455555. RING HIM TOMORROW!!! It won't cost you anything other than the fone call!!
VB
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>> A completely reconditioned engines was sourced from an advertised engine reconditioner >>
Without being too specific - because of naming and shaming rules on the forum - whereabouts in the country did the engine come from?
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If they're near you, go over there and stand on the pavement outside the building telling everyone and anyone what they did to you. This should start to upset them. If they're thugs, they'll come out and threaten you. Record this with a video camera.
At this point, you offer them the tape in return for your engine being replaced. If they decline your offer, take the tape to the local police station, tell them you were threatened and harassed, and you have evidence.
I have to admit that if taking them to court didn't work I'd find some big friends and do some threatening myself, but obviously that's a last resort.
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I don't think it will be much comfort to the OP but I will post my story of a replacement engine in the hope that it might help someone avoid the same fat ein the future.
Back in 2000 I had an engine failure and as I was reliant on my car for work and still owed money on it I opted to replace the engine rather than replace the car. The AA man who recovered my car warned me to avoid a specific engine re-conditioner (I won't name them or their location to avoid naming-and-shaming) as all the engines they supplied were salvaged from write-offs and installed without an inspection or strip down. The company quoted low prices but in the small print this price was dependent on the salvage value of your old engine. The scam was to wait until the customer arrived to collect their car and to inform them that "unfortunately your old engine had no salvage value and therefore the cost is £2,500 rather than the £600 originally quoted".
In order to avoid this trap I searched for other engine suppliers and found one in another part of the country that was a member of the Federation of Engine Re-Manufacturers (FER mentioned by bell boy earlier in the thread). I phoned FER to see if they could give me the details of a member in my local area. The FER man explained that there was no legal definition of a "re-conditioned engine" so a disreputable company could fit any salvaged engine and describe it as "re-conditioned". However, a re-manufactured engine has a specific definition (which I now can't remember but I think it involves a salvaged block but all new internal parts).
I opted for a re-manufactured engine from an FER member which was more expensive than the quotes for a re-condtioned engine but came with a 2 year, 18k mile warranty. The engine was fault free and was still running fine 4 years and 40k miles later when I finally traded my car in for something newer.
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The engine was sourced from a large town in Yorkshire. They have a website.
David...Your plan of action would probably end up with myself and my lad finishing up in the cells. As regards getting some big friends the fella who put the engine in the back of our van made Arnie look a wimp. He carried it as if it were a toaster and I imagine my biggest friends would melt away very quickly.
Solicitors letter going out today but imagine he will get a similar response to the Engineer.
rjr.. So many mistakes we made. Now you mention the re-manufactured and re-conditioned engine scenario I read that before a long time ago and should have remembered.
Thanks to the rest of you for your comments.
The saga will continue.
wemyss
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The 'recon' business (not just engines but other parts too) is full of bandits. Often its just a case of a blast over with a bit of black paint. Genuine reconditioners are few and far between.
I would just go stright to the small-claims court. After all you've paid out its got to be worth the £75 (or whatever it is now) court fee.
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Didn't your son in law think it was a bit strange that they advised him to get rid of the car as soon as the new engine had been fitted?
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Why would an engine require reconditioning anyway? The days of reboring cylinders after every 30,000 miles are long gone. Most engines will do 150,000 miles today - many will do 300,000. So if I were running a 'recon' business I would make certain that I bought engines from sub-100,000 mile writeoffs. I would then cheerfully give a 2 year 30k guarantee in the certain knowledge that no level of reconditioning would materially increase the life of my engines - save for cambelt replacement, which is a doddle when out of the car. K-series engines excepted.
Anyway, don't bother with solicitors letters. They cost a lot of money and are pointless. Just go to the small claims court. You can do it online - it's something like www.moneyclaim.gov.uk and you will be sorted!
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Why would an engine require reconditioning anyway? The days of reboring cylinders after every 30 000 miles are long gone. Most engines will do 150 000 miles today - many will do 300 000.
It was a 1.8 Rover 75. You'd not get one of them doing 300k. Nor 150k. 50K possibly....?
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recon
or
RE-CON
the answer really is in the words
a rover 75 with the 1.8 doing 50,000 miles is this a record?
can anyone else attain such a wondorous mileage?
on such a beautiful car
get down wover
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>> Why would an engine require reconditioning anyway? The days of reboring >> cylinders after every 30 000 miles are long gone. Most engines >> will do 150 000 miles today - many will do 300 >> 000. It was a 1.8 Rover 75. You'd not get one of them doing 300k. Nor 150k. 50K possibly....?
I hope I covered that... " K-series engines excepted."
I still don't see why in general one would expect a 'second hand' engine to have been 'reconditioned' - whatever that would mean. There are several posts on this thread referring to reconditioning charlatans. I'd much rather that it HADN'T been rebored by some numpty, but had instead worn in nicely.
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">Solicitors letter going out today but imagine he will get a similar response to the Engineer.<"
That would be very good, preferably in writing (unlikely). If you're feeling brave then telephone the other party and read from a prepared script, record the conversation and take notes as you speak. The recording will be invalid in court (or has that changed?) but the notes will be priceless; if the other party makes threats then so much the better. Write to the other party with a transcript of the conversation, send by recorded delivery and then off to Plod you go, although it's much easier dealing with something like this from a non-domestic address. It's a great asset to be able to read from contemporaneous notes in court, preferably with a deadpan expression, even better if the reported conversations containing foul-mouthed threats.
Unfortunately, trading standards tend to bottle it when faced with difficult traders. But that's OK, it's only tax payers money ......... my money.
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Unfortunately trading standards tend to bottle it when faced with difficult traders. But that's OK it's only tax payers money ......... my money.
That is not true in my experience. I once had trouble with a central heating installer. TS were very efficient and tenacious. The kept after the chap and I got all my money back. Don't dismiss them.
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>> That is not true in my experience. I once had trouble with a central heating installer. TS were very efficient and tenacious. The kept after the chap and I got all my money back. Don't dismiss them.
Pleased to hear it, but perhaps the exception rather than the rule. I've tried using TS a couple of times for unfair contract issues, I had to explain the legislation to them.
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Pleased to hear it but perhaps the exception rather than the rule. I've tried using TS a couple of times for unfair contract issues I had to explain the legislation to them.
Perhaps your local TS office is understaffed or has some other difficulties and is the exception rather than the rule? I would not discourage the complainant from going to TS.
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There is nothing wrong with fitting a second hand engine from a write-off. Just buy it from somewhere reputable. I have had about 3/4 such engines over the years and not had any problems. Why should an engine from an accident damaged car suddenly be no good just because the car it was originally fitted to has been in an accident? Obviously you would'nt want a unit from a car that has had a major front end shunt, and a decent outfit would not supply one.
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zm who said an engine from a crashed car was no good?
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The trouble is that these engines are so unreliable that it's unlikely that there would be many seviceable ones left in breakers' yards. On the other hand, there are loads of knackered ones all over the place.
Draw your own conclusion - the possibility of a "reconditioner" making a quick buck is just too tempting.
659.
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">The trouble is that these engines are so unreliable<"
Did Rover fit the 1.8 K-series into the 75 bodyshell? Or is it a different engine?
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">The trouble is that these engines are so unreliable<" Did Rover fit the 1.8 K-series into the 75 bodyshell?
Yes, both naturally aspirated and turbocharged.
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">Yes, both naturally aspirated and turbocharged.<"
I didn't know that. Turbocharged you say? That's interesting, I must google.
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I didn't know that. Turbocharged you say?
Indeed so.
A fairly good summary is at www.tridentgarages.co.uk/r75_18t.html
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>> I didn't know that. Turbocharged you say? Indeed so.
I did about 500 miles in a 75 1.8T once, rather like a 1.8T Passat i.e. much more gutsy than the n/a version though not a ball of fire, also much more gutsy than the 2.0 V6. Too long gear ratio's IIRC.
Also coincidentally I used to live up the road from Trident Garages and was a regular customer at one time, servicing and parts for various BL cars, a new engine in my company Montego (cracked block) etc.
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wemyss, sorry to hear of your disaster. Go the small claims route, it is straightforward and if you follow procedure you will get your case to court. Usually rogues don't turn up so you win by default and you can use the court bailiff to collect. You won't know if they will turn up or not until the day so have all your evidence neatly assembled in date order of events and contacts by telephone or visit. Rest assured thatyou will get a fair deal from the court, which is fairly informal, they can spot rogues like anyone else can and you should get the benefit of any doubt. Also if they do put up initial resistance insist the case is heard in your local court not theirs, make them do the travelling. It's amazing how an early start and a long journey puts rogues off. Used the system myself successfully and although long winded it eventually gets there. Best of luck. Concrete.
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Sorry to hear of your problems. We are currently in touch with Trading Standards about a company who misled an elderly relative into buying a useless £1600 mattress - they were slow to get on the case but are now pursuing it for us. I would definitely give them a try.
I did my own research and found these useful:
www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/ It's not just about bank charges, the forums are helpful.
www.dti.gov.uk/files/file25486.pdf This is the DTI guide on goods and services.
www.lawpack.co.uk/avoiding_court.asp This is advice on contact before going to court.
A highly recommended book is by Patricia Pearl, a judge, called "Small Claims Procedure: a practical guide". It's on Amazon. It is not as expensive as you may think to go to the Small Claims Court - we will be using it if TS don't secure a refund. Best wishes.
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IME Trading Standards are not too enthusiastic about pursuing one-off complaints (I guess there are so many of these and they have limited manpower). However if they get large volumes of complaints about a single trader then they do pursue with vigour. They have put or two rogue motor traders out of business in my part of the country...Definitely worth reporting this incident to them.
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How do I edit a post I have already made? Can't find details in the 'Help' and the moderators email address doesn't seem to work. Quick reply appreciated.
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In short you can't : only a mod. can edit a post.
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Could a mod please edit my post above. Please delete the Consumer Acton Group link and just give the name of the site. Thanks.
{As per the email reply to you - DD}
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