hi
really at a loss with my 214 now (1997 P reg). Its been sat in my garage for 3 months and two weeks ago tried to get it to go but it wouldnt. Turned the key and nothing. Replaced the battery and was no better. Green flag came out and diagnosed starter motor.
Today I have replaced the starter motor and still nothing. The alarm light goes out on the dash, the fuel pump kicks in on ignition but turn the key to start and there is nothing except a click. What is strange is the clock goes blank when the key is in position 3.
The headlights work fine and dont dim when trying to start. When green flag came out they said power was getting to the starter motor.
Can anyone please help as I need to move the car as I need my garage back but also want to start using the car again.
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Isn't there a resetable fuel cut off switch at the back of the centre console on these (a plunger type switch)
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Starter relay stuck or maybe just a corroded main earth connection?
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Any ideas where the starter relay would be? A corroded main earth could be possible as everything seems to have gone that little bit more rusty under the bonnet since its been sat around! Would there be any other symptons of this?
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Engine to body earth connection., I bet the green flag man checked with his negative on the battery connection and not the engine block.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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TVM I think you may be right about where he earthed it. I'll find the earth strap and clean up the connectors and see if that springs her into life! I may have spent the best part of the morning wrestling with 10 yr old rusty nuts and bolts for nothing, although at least I know how to change the starter now I suppose
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If you suspect the earth strap, connect a jump lead from the battery negative to the engine block and try start it again.
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Will it turn over by hand?.
Good reason for asking,even if you think its a daft question
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Steve
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sorry steve.o, how do you mean by hand?
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Jack up one front wheel, put in 4th or 5th gear, turn the wheel by hand. You can feel the engine turning over.
Don't drop the car on your foot!
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>>sorry steve.o, how do you mean by hand?
As Lud said
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Steve
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bb
I'm gobsmacked that Green Flag can't test a starter. Arm yourself with a 12 volt tester of some kind [a bulb and a couple of bits of wire are fine.]
Connect one end to a known good earth and touch the other on the main battery cable's bolted terminal on the starter solenoid.
It should be permanently live; [if not; re-check your earth] and it must stay live when the engine is cranked - yes?
There is another, smaller, cable going to the solenoid end cap. Remove it [if necessary] and test that it comes live when cranked.
If it does; test that the casing of the starter DOESN'T become live when cranked.
If the main BOLT is live; the energizing feed is live/well connected and the casing isn't - then it's the starter assembly.
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Hi, Sorry I'm not mechanic but I did once experience similar problem that was resolved when guy from AA discovered that there was a loose conecton of some simple wires into some spade connector - located somewhere down near the base of the radiator (at front of engine).Good luck.
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Thanks for everyones help so far. I havent had chance to get in the garage tonight but will do hopefully tomorrow to give the jump lead idea and if that fails will try and turn the engine by hand.
Out of interest, If I cannot turn the engine with the wheel, what does this signify? Should I ring a breakers now!!
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Earth strap that runs rom the battery to the bonnet landing panel at the top near the radiator is a fairly likely bet. caused no end of probs on rovers over the years have these. Run a new cable/lead or as suggested for a test use a jump lead there.
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Hi
just to update.
I have tried earthing the starter to battery and the block to the body and still nothing.
I have jacked up the wheel and as suggested I have tried to turn the engine in 5th. Although it wasnt easy I did manage to get the wheel 2/3 the way around. Steve.o is this a good or bad thing?
The crank fuse under the dash and all fuses in the engine bay are fine.
I havent tried push/tow starting yet however I dont hold out much hope on that. I did get the old starter from the back of the garage and the cog does easily spin so the starter i dont think is ceased.
any more ideas? The starter that I put on was from a 1.1K series however it was identical to the one that came off and a motor factors has confimed its the same unit.
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Looking in haynes, there is a starter inhibitor switch and the MEMS relay module that has the starter relay in it. Does anyone know where these are or what they look like on a 214? The electrical diagram as good as it is doesnt show what things look like!!
Just thought they may be a long shot, off to dig out the multimeter and check the power etc again. As the solenoid isnt clicking, haynes says either its not earthing, spade connector not getting power or a break in the starter circuit.
If I had anticipated such trouble I would have driven the car once a week to keep it going!!
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That was a check to see whether you had a seeping H/G,ie if bore had filled with water it wont move.
you now need to find the starter relay,I`m not certain where it is on that model
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Steve
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Haynes diagram shows the starter relay as part of MEMS unit. Is it all in one or is it separate do you know? Think I will have to find a friendly garage that will show me what one looks like!
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bb
The relay unit is a matt-black plastic, slightly tapered, box on the nearside wing. Two multi-plugs; one larger than the other.
As you've got a meter; how about doing the suggested starter test and then we'll know what's really happening.
Also; is this auto or manual.
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>>Is it all in one or is it separate do you know
According to my PDF version of circuits, its all in ecu,but have you checked link 5 next to fuses, need to remove 2 screws for access,apart from that its looking like ECU fault : (
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Steve
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I think its possible that a cylinder is full of water and the engine is trying to compress it. The 'K' series engine is prone to head gasket problems and water could have leaked into a cylinder. First thing to do is remove the spark plugs and see if the engine will spin over with the key. Iif it does turn over it may eject the water from a plug hole. similarly you could do the jack up, spin wheel action mentioned earlier - this will have the same effect. If one of the cylinders is full of water then you could be faced with a loarge bill. It is possible that the water (if present) has corroded the cylinder and possible valves or the minimum would be a head gasket and possible head skim.
All the above test suggestions should be tried as they actually cost no money.
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These are the views of Robin the Technician with 35 years in the trade. I fix, therefore I am...
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Just a further update.
I have done the electrical tests as per haynes.
The continuous live from the battery is measuring 12.5v on the multimeter, earthing to the body and the battery negative. The spade connector on the solenoid is also measuring the same when the ignition is set to cranking and 0 when in position 2 which i assume is correct.
The MEMS relay box is clicking when turning the key so there are no issues as far as I can see with the power or circuit. I tried starting with a jump lead from the starter to the bodywork and the engine block to the body earth just in case there is a dodgy earth.
Do I have another duff starter/solenoid? Something must be amiss here as the solenoid doesnt even click!
I havent tried tow starting yet, however the car moves in 3rd gear- garage drops down hill before it goes up and i can push the car slowly in 3rd so I assume the engine isnt seized up..
Anyone got any more ideas? Cant be a compression issue as the engine will turn by hand, electrics seem to be working, battery is new and charge is fine, everything else is working, it just wont crank!!
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bb
If the only spade on the solenoid end cap is at battery voltage and a well-earthed starter doesn't crank - then you have a duff solenoid/starter on your hands.
To confirm 100%; measure betwen the solenoid terminal [spade if that's what your one is] when cranking and the starter body. 12 volts showing and it's definitely duff. Clout it with a block of wood and see if that helps; if not, change it.
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Thanks I will try that, I didnt earth to the starter body so will give that a go. This is the replacement starter as the other one had the same symptons, however this one is second hand so by no means guaranteed
Only wierd thing is when the ignition is on position 3(crank) and nothing happens (other than the clicks in the fuse box and relay) the clock on the dash goes out(doesnt reset). This may always do this its just you never get a totally response I suppose.
I have tried the headlight test and they dont seem to dim when trying to start which to me would suggest power is not being applied to the starter, although only in daylight against my other car so that may not be a true reflection!
I will try this new suggestion over the weekend and report back...I sledgehammer is a more likely candidate thatn a block of wood at this rate!!!
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