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Thanks for advice so far which I will pass on to my daughter. It is a little worrying that if you are in an accident then it seems that you just quote a different registration number and drive away before anyone checks, unless the police are involved of course. I will try to keep everyone updated but it could be a lengthy exercise!
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> that you just quote a different registration number and drive away before anyone checks
Keep a camera (a disposable film with flash) in the glovebox. Take pictures of the cars' positions after the accident, the car's reg plates, and the other driver. If they are genuine they won't mind, and may well do the same. While it's possible to alter pics, you'd be a clever user of Photoshop to include the sticker in the back windscreen just the same as theirs.
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Let me get this straight - they used "your" car registration number to track you down.
If details were exchanged at the time, how come the other party doesn't have your insurance policy details? Surely that's the first thing you exchange after an accident?
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That's what I thought, Andy. But as I was not there at the time, I can only go on what my insurer is telling me. They have have got a name (not mine) and a registration plate. They have used the registration plate to trace my insurers. Apparently they have acess to a database that can do this
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This happened to me some time ago, and each time I called them up and said it wasn't me. When I asked them what the vehicle was, they said a silver 4X4. Funny that, my car was a blue Nissan estate. It then got passed to another claim chasing outfit, so we went through the whole thing again. Eventually they dropped it. So check what vehicle was involved.
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As Mr. Pope says, get some sort of evidence as to where you were, and send it to your old insurer.
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.. As Mr. Pope says, get some sort of evidence as to where you were ..
excuse me, but i thought you were innocent until proven guilty.
it is for the accuser to prove your guilt, not for you to prove your innocence.
if you know that you have not had an accident, and/or that you and your car were not at the scene at the alleged place date and time, then all you need to do is send a recorded delivery letter to your insurance company telling them in quite, clear terms, simply that the claim is fictitious/bogus and that unless evidence is forthcoming to prove the contrary, you will not tolerate any further harassment. if necessary, send a simialr letter to the other party.
tell them that you will seek damages/compensation if the fraudulent claim costs you any further time, stress, or trouble.
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>> .. As Mr. Pope says, get some sort of evidence as to where you were .. excuse me, but i thought you were innocent until proven guilty. it is for the accuser to prove your guilt, not for you to prove your innocence.
Supplying evidence is part of proving that you didn't do something. If you just say "I didn't do it" in court, you're unlikely to do very well!
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Supplying evidence is part of proving that you didn't do something. If you just say "I didn't do it" in court, you're unlikely to do very well!
the law in the uk must have changed then, unless all the judges who throw out cases on the basis of "insufficient evidence" or "malicious prosecution" are in the wrong.
for it to go to court in the first place, the accuser has to have evidence to allege that you have done something. if it goes there, and they produce their duff evidence, then you have them over a barrel when you provide your bullet-proof "alibi".
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>> Supplying evidence is part of proving that you didn't do something. If you just say "I didn't do it" in court, you're unlikely to do very well! the law in the uk must have changed then, unless all the judges who throw out cases on the basis of "insufficient evidence" or "malicious prosecution" are in the wrong. for it to go to court in the first place, the accuser has to have evidence to allege that you have done something. if it goes there, and they produce their duff evidence, then you have them over a barrel when you provide your bullet-proof "alibi".
As I understand it from the OP, this is a civil matter, where the burden of proof is far less. Of course, the OP *could* go to court as you suggest, but it would be far easier for everyone concerned if he gave his insurance company some evidence to prevent matters going that far!
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I would take the following actions.
I would contact the Insurance's Company's call centre. Ask for a named person to handle your complaint. I would then send a letter outlining the whole sorry saga from start to finish including how much you feel it has cost you in time and money to sort. I would then tell them that you want the matter properly investigated and that you are considering instructing a solicitor. In that letter you want to make it clear that the letter is one of complaint. Ask them to respond within 14 days and tell them unless the matter is resolved with suitable corrections to your record that you will be complaining direct to the Insurance Ombudsman. Record everything you do including telephone conversations, totally lawful and correct if you inform them that you are doing that.
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oh are you a member of a motoring organisation ? - they might help if you pay for that service.
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DO you have legal cover as part of your insurance?
Admittedly, it's frequently as good as a chocolate fireguard, but if they do something, the legal terms should be right?
Neil
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Robert J,
When you decided to move insurer and were asked whether you had 'any claims or accidents in the last 5 years', I'm surprised you didn't reply in the negative -
Was this because you were asked for proof of NCD from your previous insurer?
Most insurers these days don't ask for 'hard copy' proof of NCD. They rely on the fact that if you have lied you will have invalidated the policy and will be unable to claim. So, proof of NCD is a technicality, until you have a claim!
Your previous insurer has handles this badly. I think your initial response should have been to state your position - it was a case of mistaken identity - and insist that the other party produces some evidence - your insurer should have assisted you with this.
It is what you should do from this point forward. State your position simply, clearly and without elaboration.
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Most insurers these days don't ask for 'hard copy' proof of NCD. They rely on the fact that if you have lied you will have invalidated the policy and will be unable to claim. So, proof of NCD is a technicality, until you have a claim!
Is that a very recent thing? Certainly whenever I've changed insurers, they take your word for it initially, but I've always had to send proof of NCD within xx days.
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It is down to the individual insurer. I couldn't say with certainty how widespread it is either. I first encountered it two years ago. I think it's a positive move - on the whole, dispensing with the worry of proof of NCDs vanishing in the post, resulting delays and general confusion.
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Thanks for all the advice which I shall update my daughter with this evening. Just like Robert J, the OP, my daughter was contacted by her insurer who had been traced through someone quoting her Registration number. We still have no idea where the incident was, apart from somewhere in Kent, who the other party is, or what other vehicle(s) might be involved. A search on the DVLA website has revealed several same makes of car (not sure about the model) with registration numbers very close to hers, not really a surprise I suppose. It is either a misquote of a number or possibly a clone. She is now in the process of obtaining statements proving where she and her car were at the time stated.
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I'm surprised that your insurance company is taking this action. Some years ago I was rear ended and both cars were severely damaged. The other driver didn't have his insurance details but gave me his name and address. I was pretty shaken up and my car had to be taken away on a lorry.
I contacted the other driver on the following day and he refused to give me any details of his insurance. I visited the police station but they didn't want to know.
Briefly, I managed to find his insurance company by 'phoning a number of brokers with his details and car registration. Fortunately, he was a well known scrap metal merchant. I contacted his insurance company who refused to deal with me as he had not made a claim. I persisted, but got nowhere. Consequently, I took legal advice and persued him through the County Court. His insurance company settled up with my barrister outside the courtroom.
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I contacted his insurance company who refused to deal with me as he had not made a claim.
Exactly the same thing happened to me - except that the other driver had given me his details, but didn't report the accident for several weeks. He seemed an OK bloke, but his insurance was 3rd party so he probably didn't appreciate it was necessary.
I was in touch with his insurance company but they said there was absolutely nothing they could do until he did reported it, which he eventually did.
I'm therefore surprised that the posters own insurance company is even acknowledging the claims.
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this happened to me 2 years ago last month
i still have the original letter (its in front of me) from the other insurer,this accident alledgedly happened in wembley london ,it was a scam,i rang my insurance company told them about the letter they told me to
a =ring the other insurer up and tell them herewith forewith and all other times between that this accident never happened and to b= follow this up with a recorded letter with the same facts on
i never heard any more
scam/scam/scam
if you want the times, details, insurance company details, i would be happy to forward them via the mods
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scam/scam/scam if you want the times, details, insurance company details, i would be happy to forward them via the mods
>
I agree with oldman...it sounds very much like a scam. Pugugly's advice is sound above, but if you go down the complaint path, head it 'Formal Complaint' as believe it or not large organisations will deal with complaints a number of ways, inc fob off...whereas a Formal Complaint has to be logged properly and dealt with according to their Complaints Procedures which are often published or subject to scrutiny by others such as an Ombudsman
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You're right.... Formal Complaint.....Still on holiday and wound down
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Exactly the same thing happened to me - except that the other driver had given me his details, but didn't report the accident for several weeks. ....I was in touch with his insurance company but they said there was absolutely nothing they could do until he did reported it, which he eventually did. I'm therefore surprised that the posters own insurance company is even acknowledging the claims.
in reply to bill payer:
i wonder when your incident took place. because as of 2002, the insurance company can be sued directly as if it was the insured person. see
www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023061.htm
.... Right of action
3. - (1) Paragraph (2) of this regulation applies where an entitled party has a cause of action against an insured person in tort or (as the case may be) delict, and that cause of action arises out of an accident.
(2) Where this paragraph applies, the entitled party may, without prejudice to his right to issue proceedings against the insured person, issue proceedings against the insurer which issued the policy of insurance relating to the insured vehicle, and that insurer shall be directly liable to the entitled party to the extent that he is liable to the insured person. ....
EXPLANATORY NOTE (This note is not part of the Regulations) ......
These Regulations, giving effect to Article 3 of the Fourth Motor Insurance Directive, confer on residents of the 15 Member States a new right to issue proceedings against the insurer of the person responsible for an accident in the UK. This right is extended to residents of the European Free Trade Association States namely, Iceland, Norway and Liechtenstein. ......
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in reply to bill payer: i wonder when your incident took place. because as of 2002, the insurance company can be sued directly as if it was the insured person. see
It was certainly before that.
Thinking about, if the driver/policyholder had been killed (which can't be an unusual event) then there must have been a way around it anyway.
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>> in reply to bill payer: >> >> i wonder when your incident took place. because as of 2002, >> the insurance company can be sued directly as if it was >> the insured person. see
Mine was quite a few years before 2002.
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I contacted his insurance company who refused to deal with me as he had not made a claim. I persisted, but got nowhere.
I had the same problem about 25 years ago. The other party's insurer said they couldn't do anything about it because their client hadn't reported the accident to them.
--
L\'escargot.
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It is not a question of proving where HE was, but a question of where the CAR was. After all, I could lend my car to someone, they have an accident and the claim is on my insurance....yes? I am not saying this happened in this distressing case, but I thnk that is what is being alluded to by the claimant.
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It clearly makes sense for the OP to prevent this escalating, so doing nothing is not an option. However, if it reaches court, it's the claimant's task to prove that the defendant's car was in the accident, and they will have to put their evidence to the court. Simply putting a reg number taken at the time with no independent witnesses as support won't get far with any judge.
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the claimant, IE other party will of had to send in a statement of facts by now, legally the insurance company are obliged to provide you with this upon request. I suggest you get this, it should detail car make, model, colour and damage incurred of every vehicle involved alongside the registration number, also it will have details of any parties given at the scene. With this you can then prove your car waasnt involved either by description mismatch, a lack of damage to your car where stated (any bodyshop can do a report to prove this) and you may be able to trace the people named on the documents and find the correct vehicle registration mark.
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Robbie,
I believe the law has now been changed.
If a third party with whom you've had an accident refuses to give you their insurance details you can make a complaint to the police, who are then duty bound to investigate the matter and obtain the details for you. Refusal to supply is a criminal offence, as it is if it should subsequently transpire, after due investigation, that there is no valid insurance in operation.
From my own personal experience the police are very reluctant to get involved in this, but that's what the law says, and, if pushed, they have to comply. When I went along to my local police station they even had to look the law up in a set of reference books which they kept, but they had to admit that I was correct.
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...just a thought....why isn't your old insurance company dealing with this? After all, you were the insured at the time the alleged accident happened. What have they said to you?
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They are doing so tack. So far we are still pretty friendly, but that could change. In reply to Jemina Can above, my renewal quote include a reduced level of NCD (I am not sure why I did not lose it all) and my new insurer was happy to give me a quote based on my record as stated and another for when/ if my full NCD was reinstated. I fully explained my circumstances and made sure they recorded this in writing. When I did get my full NCD back, I faxed this to them and they refunded me my money no quibble.
Thanks to everybody who has replied. I have to say that since others have had similar experiences, there is more than a whiff of scam about this affair.
The annoying thing for me is that when this first surfaced I asked security where I work if they had any evidence I was at work on the day of the crash. They recorded on a hard disc my security card opening gates around the site, but since I thought the matter was closed I did not tell them to keep it and they have since wiped the disc.
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Robert J - if Security saw the record of you entering and leaving all you need to do is get a written statement from the person who saw the record stating the fact. No judge is going to find against you on the evidence your claimant has on this case.
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Remember you leave other electronic footprints, e-mails and financial transactions.
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>>Robert J - if Security saw the record of you entering and leaving all you need to do is get a written statement from the person who saw the record stating the fact. No judge is going to find against you on the evidence your claimant has on this case.
Trouble is, as has been stated above, it is the lcoation of the car that is in question, not the policyholder; although I suppose it does help to a degree.
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You are right SC, but I am not sure if they think it was me and I provided a false name at the scene or someone else in my car. If it is the latter, why don?t they go after them instead of me?
It is hard for me to fall out with my insurer, the lady I spoke to seemed to be doing her best to help. She contacted the other solicitors while I waited, but again the only information they provided were the registration plate and this name I have never heard of. The choice facing me is either attend a hearing and defend the matter, or don?t attend and my insurer will pay out and put this claim on my record. The more I think about this, the more I am sure it is a scam; I am sure many would be too intimidated/ not able to miss work/ busy caring for someone etc. to attend a hearing some distance from where they live, and so it is easy money for them. My insurer told me that in similar cases, very often when they agree to a hearing then the case gets dropped.
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I don't think you have any choice but to attend. Failure to attend is effectively an admission of guilt/responsibility.
Do you already have a date for this hearing?
I'm shocked at the impotence of your insurer - but from your phrasing it does seem as though they may suspect you are trying to 'pull a fast one'.
You need to ask yourself about how they may have come to form this impression and be prepared for this 'hearing'.
Do you wonder if you haven't been taking the matter seriously enough until this ppoint and that that may have created a whiff of suspicion? It's all I can think of for what sounds a farcical situation.
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>I'm shocked at the impotence of your insurer - but from your phrasing it does seem as though they may >suspect you are trying to 'pull a fast one'.
If as it would seem your insurers are supporting you and arguing your case their opinion is not relevant. They can not prevent the claimant from issuing County Court proceedings if he is set upon doing so. It would not be helpful to make a complaint against your insurers and it is not a matter which would concern the Ombudsman.
If a summons is issued you should reply with a simple factual defence. The onus is on the claimant to prove his case. He should certainly be required to describe the colour make and model of the car alleged to have been invoved. You are entitled to ask for the case to be transferred to your local County Court and this may cause the claimant to incur extra travel tme and expence. Your insurers may help you with all this
Bear in mind that if this as a small claims court case you will have to pay your Solicitors costs win or lose. It should be a simple case decided on the facts as presented and there should be no complex legal issues requiring legal advice. It is a very informal hearing and the Judge will usually be helpful to an unrepresented party.
Good luck
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I'm shocked this is still going on. Either he can stop it, by coming up with some sort of evidence that he wasn't
there, and stop this action, or go to this hearing and argue the toss. There's not really much else to say.
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Robert J.
You need a brief.
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IMO You would be very foolish to ignore this trusted advice.
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Isn't this why the keeper has responsibility to ensure the driver is insured. If not insured the keeper is permitting uninssured use!
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Isn't this why the keeper has responsibility to ensure the driver is insured. If not insured the keeper is permitting uninssured use!
The keeper, owner or whoever simply has to make it a condition of lending that the borrower is insured. I would say to you "You may borrow my car as if you are properly insured", for instance. Should you *not* be insured, I have a valid defence against a charge of allowing and permitting etc.
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