OK guys a question for you. I hope that there is a good cross section of vehicle owners out there! (and opinions).
If I want a compromise between a really good off roader (Land Rover) and the practicalities of life, (reliability, economy, safety, motorways, 20,000+ miles per year, dogs and children), but still want to go green laning, what would you suggest?
I asked the Honda dealer about a CRV - You mustn't take it off road, sir! The Vauxhall dealer tell me that the Frontera is good off road. Is that true? Would I be better off with a Frontera than a Freelander?
Any other suggestions?
TIA
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dont buy a Frontera whatever you do!
jimny is great if you want a little one
otherwise look at toyota stuff
or the new nissan
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Toyota 4-Runner.
Absolutely outstanding vehicle. I have done a lot of mileage on freeway and serious off-road. Never let me down, never needed anything except servicing and puncture repairs.
Very comfortable, very capable.
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Mark: A what? That's not listed on the Toyota UK web site. Is it a current UK model?
TIA
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This is a Hiace pickup with an estate body - "ok on motorway" - if you can live with absolute top speed 85mph and engine noise like spanners having a gang-bang in a filing cabinet.
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no its not ,it is a genuine 4x4 ,it was sold normally with a benzine motor upto V8 4.0 normally with all leather ,sun roof, clima etc
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I understand Fronteras are a disaster looking for somewhere to happen. Witness the one that pulled up by the pumps at an M4 service area while I was there the other Sunday and proceeded to burst into flames!
After 11k miles I'm enjoying my Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.1TD a lot in its 3 roles - family car, caravan towing and some off-road (usually tugging the caravan across a seriously muddy field!). I understand the new 2.6 Mercedes common rail engine is even better. So far, totally reliable (looks for wood to touch!).
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Graham,
Your price range make a huge difference.
David
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David: Yes I suppose it is an impossible question. The lightweight it has been so much fun. I also have a VW Sharan. So theoretically I could get rid of either (or neither!). 2k or 20K!
We did look at the Disco the other day. You'll have seen that on the other forum. 10 yrs old, 82K. 3.9 litre V8, LPG.
Maybe all this speculation is a sign that I have too much time on my hands!
It is good to get feedback from people though. If the Frontera is bad then I can continue to look for my ultimate car elsewhere. Maybe it doesn't exist and I should be satisfied with the three that I have, that I good in there own respect.
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4-Runner is basically a Hilux pickup with a different back body. I love Hiluxes (a dangerous admission for a Land Rover fan, but I have to admit they are very tough and nearly as comfortable as a car). They run forever on very little maintenance, and are easy to work on. Only problem is that they handle like a 4WD pickup truck (i.e. very badly), and the non-turbo diesel engine is a bit short on power. Diesels have been known to seize solid if left idling when cold, due to poor design of oil feed system, but I think this fault was fixed on later engines. Also, parts can be expensive, and if you go off-roading you are bound to do some damage from time to time.
Now Mark has put the idea in my head, I'm tempted to buy one myself. I was thinking about buying a Land Rover Defender to replace my old Landie and Audi with one vehicle, but Defenders seem to be immune from the savage depreciation that has hit the rest of the used car market, and I can't find one to the right specification for less than five figures.
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Graham,
It was, I don't know if it still is.
However, I just checked and autotrader have them for sale, so it def. did exist in the UK, but the newest I saw was 97.
You'd have to ask Toyota if it still does exist.
It was Toyota 4Runner.
Mark.
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Do you need it for proper offroading, or would a Subaru Forester suffice? Prob more fun than some of the above.
4runners I have been in have impressed me though, although I preferred the old (C - plate) Hilux one of my friends has.
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From the back pages in Auto Express and Autocar, it seems that it is no longer on sale in the UK and the last dated it is listed as a used buy in Auto Express is 96N. HJ car-by-car breakdown doesn't mention it.
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Pity. I am trying to remember when I bought mine over here (actually Chile), I think it was 2000 and it was new. I wonder why they don't take them into the UK anymore.
I'd still recommend them. I have the petrol. (Big engine, loads of power, nice off-road).
However, I know that it got massively increased safety ratings and this was apparantly due to a complete remodelling in 1996. I would have a worry, therefore, that the UK ones, given that they seem to be that age or older, are deficient in some way.
I just checked and they was a new 2002 model available everywhere else in the world.
Since from 01/08 I'll be living in the UK, I guess I'm going to have to import one.
On a final note, I would like FIF to publicly acknowledge that I didn't bite on the request for an opinion on the Freelander !!!
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You just did Mark - well a little nibble anyway :o)
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All together now children,
Oooooh no he didn't!
Ok Mark? No worries sunshine.
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Maybe worth getting a Toyota as a personal import from Afghanistan, then I could have the optional SAM-7 kit for the M25 8-)
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i look forward to your continued education on the reality of the low standard of taffic policing and public policy re road safety when you get back...
i thought id have a dig at you before you had a go at me...
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Graham,
You have the ideal combination, a nice prople carrier and "The Best 4X4 By Far". It is pretty hard to have the same fun in a £20K 4WD for fear of damage.
Interestingly my respect for the middle age/older Discovery increases with time due to those I look after, but do mail me if you are seriously looking at an old one. Something important to tell.
The Japanese all singing, all dancing gin palaces are very well thought of but not quite the same thing.
David
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Mitsubishi Shogun
or
Subaru
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I don't know how relevant this is to you Graham, but the guy across the road from us has a 10 year old Isuzu Trooper SWB. Bought a couple of years ago for £3k. It's used as a car/runabout during the week and for off road at the weekend. Does both jobs very well, no problems, he's very happy!
Regards
Paul
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David,
If you want to have real fun off-road, then you need a HiLux - simply the most fun you *can* have.
However, if you want to combine it with on-road enjoyment, then sadly I think you are limited to vehicles from the last 5 years or so. At least you are if you want to get the best from both worlds. These cars will always be a compromise, but there is less loss of ability these days caused by that compromise.
And whilst that might not be 20k, its still going to be a lot of money.
On the other hand, if you are using a vehicle off-road, bangs and scratches are inevitable, and at least show it is being used to its fullest.
I think the best performers are the Japanese 4WD such as the 4Runner.
As for the Freelander, then I will leave that to FIF to comment.
Mark.
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No comment, and that *is* on the record.
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Mark,
I guess it all hinges on what you were in when you had the most fun off road, that then becomes the vehicle you remember as the one you *can* have the most fun in.
My direct experience is quite limited. Subaru 4x4 Estae, Daihatsu Jeep then four Land Rovers (three leaf and one coil).
The Land Rover may (but it probably is) not be the very best off-road but it is the most practical as a working vehicle as long as you just want yourself (plus a pal) and a sensible kit of tools to do a job off-road in the UK.
Doing some fencing and want to saw the posts or hammer something to shape, that strong square front bumper isn't a chrome decoration it's a workbench. So the horse kicked the wing and took it down to a bare metal dent. So what, just another badge of use to bear with honour. Any other 4WD is down the sprayshop for a £150 rectification.
Don't make me go on....
David
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David W: I went for a trip round the block this PM, with the tilt/sticks off. Four & half hours later I returned, cold but a very happy bunny.
I redid some green lanes that I did in low first c/w white knuckles when I first got her. Today mostly high 2nd. It's me with limited ability not the Landy! What a great time. Couldn't get away from the petrol station as a guy came over for a chat and got waves from all the Series Landys on the road.
I agree with the marks on the body. I went along some lanes that have over grown with lack of use. Lane now narrower than the Light Weight. I couldn't imagine taking any new vehicle along there regardless of it's ability. I would be too wary of the scraches.
As someone mentioned on the other forum, if you have 20 grand to spend on an off roader then maybe you should buy 10 series III Landies and have them in all your favourite colours!!!
See you at the Old Sod?
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Dear all
Fantastic replies, I knew I could count on you.
I think I probably am OK for now. Just been out in the lightweight. There is an old land fill site nearby, the gypsys have a tendency to dump there and so the council has just re-done a huge berm next to the road to keep them out. I squared up to it and she went over the top with no problem at all, well except for the tow hitch scrapping the ground. Fantastic.
BTW I went home via a Toyota dealer. Took a Colorado out. That also was fantastic - but at £31,700 it bludy well should be. I really couldn't ever imagine taking such a beast off road. If I did something to break the Landy it's only £2000 down the drain. To be honest I can't imagine writing it off though. There would always be loads left to repair.
Mind you lightweight and Colarado mmmmmm.....
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For serious street cred and off road capability:
Mercedes Benz G-Wagen. I don't recall when the stopped production, so the last might be quite old but they have a reputation for being Tonka tough.
MB are starting making them too with common rail V8 diesel power I think. BTW HJ, this model is not in the car-by-car breakdown?
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I don't see anything in this thread about the Nissan X-Trail. Take a look at the road test (I'm afraid it's 'road' test only) accessed via the Home Page on this site.
HJ
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>This is a Hiace pickup with an estate body .......
What is ? The 4Runner ?? Sorry Marcus, you`ve got your wires crossed somewhere.
Top Speed of 85 ? Don't think so. And isn't the Hiace the little van thing ??
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Can someone give us the definitive answer on just what the 4Runner is. I must admit I thought it was just a primitive Hilux with a hardtop but it seems that there is a much more modern vehicle under the 4Runner name. Maybe the confusion among posters has arisen because of Toyota's predeliction for retaining the same model name for quite different cars ie the Corolla and MR2 transitions.
David
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David,
www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/4runner/index.ht...l>Toyota 4Runner
It most certainly is not a primitive HiLux. I have one, I bought it to replace a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Its done about 40,000 miles now, totally trouble-free. I did about 20,000 in teh Jeep which was much more of a trying ownership experience.
It is a very well-equipped, powerful, quiet and comfortable freeway cruiser, it is very easy to park and manouver around town and quite exceptional off-road.
The thing to watch is as I said earlier - it had a major revamp in 1996/7. It was about that time they seemed to stop selling them in the UK. I have no idea what the older one is like at all, other than the fact that it looks much the same.
It is better around town and startlingly better off-road than the Cherokee, the load space is much easier to use, although actually a similar volume. The Cherokee is perhaps a little better on long-distance freeway, but its a marginal difference.
Mark.
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Mark
Thanks for the link. Interesting car but a check on Toyota's European sites suggest it is not sold anywhere in Euroland or indeed in Australia either. I guess we have the lower-spec RAV4 5-door instead. Could the 4Runner be US-built and therefore put into traditional US markets?
A check on Autotrader shows a UK RHD version sold up to 1995 as others have said and that it was a more advanced 4x4 than the ones I saw about 10 years ago (probably in Finland) which were to all appearances a Hilux with hard top.
I guess you will have to import your own if you want a new one. However, the Colorado diesel auto is finding favour with the agricultural professionals I deal with, following on from the Jeep Cherokee and the old-style Isuzu Trooper. Most farmers grumbled like mad about the Discovery's build and reliability a few years back and looked elsewhere.
David
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From the Toyota website, slightly edited:
1985: Making its debut in model year 1985, the first-generation 4Runner came with two doors and a removable hard top -- a fiberglass shell over the rear area. [In other words, a posh Hilux]
1986: Toyota upgrades the 4Runner's ride and responsiveness by replacing the solid front axle with an independent front suspension. [Still a Hilux, but with more bits to go wrong]
1988: More power and refinement arrive in a 3.0-liter V6 engine. [Live rear axle, leaf springs, part time 4WD, and they put a V6 in it? Probably amusing in a straight line]
1989: The all-new, second-generation 4Runner premieres in the spring as a 1990 model with, for the first time, 2-door and 4-door 4WD and 2WD versions. An integrated steel body replaces the fiberglass rear shell, and ride comfort improves with the addition of a 4-link, coil-spring rear suspension. The Hi-Trac independent torsion bar front suspension is shared with the rugged 4WD Toyota Truck. [Still with plenty of Hilux DNA, but decent rear suspension at last.]
1996: Toyota introduces a third-generation 4Runner with an expanded lineup, a more aerodynamic exterior, a larger interior and more convenience features. Improvements include a new, more powerful 2.7-liter DOHC 16-valve 4-cylinder engine, a 3.4-liter DOHC 24-valve V6 and a revised coil-spring front suspension. [That'll be Mark (Brazil)'s one then.]
1998: Several interior modifications, including new audio systems and an additional power outlet in the rear cargo area, add even more refinement to 4Runner. [Transformation from tarted up Hilux to mobile gin palace now complete.]
2000: Improved features such as heated mirrors and special HSEA water-repellent glass made the go-anywhere 4Runner safer than ever. [I'd never thought of heated mirrors as a safety feature.]
2001: Toyota's Vehicle Skid Control (VSC)* plus TRAC Traction Control and ABS with Brake Assist** become standard. TRAC Traction Control acts as an electronic limited-slip differential automatically directing power to wheels with the most traction, pulling the 4Runner out of almost any situation you throw it into. [Vehicle finally becomes too complicated for its own good.]
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Excellent Richard, info with attitude. You'll be a Freelander man then????
David
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Vauxhall Monterey.
Vauxhall Syndrome - Decent device hiding under a dull badge image.
Mine hauls 1800kgs of Caravan, does off road well, and lugs quantities of telecomms kit around with ease. Early thirties if driven whilst wearing a flat-ish cap.
rg
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Let's start again at the beginning -
1) Do you tow? drive across ploughed fields? or just fields as car parks?
2) Vauxhall dealer says Frontera is "good" off-road. Define good.
The only 4x4 to come LOWER than the Freelander for reliablility is the Frontera. (source - J D Power survey 2001)
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Like I wrote before, Nissan X-Trail 6-speed diesel. I know this is supposed to be a 4-Runner thread (now LandCruiser Colorado), but the X-Trail is a more sensibly priced, more modern vehicle, much more suited to British roads. See road test on this site.
HJ
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>>to be a 4-Runner thread (now LandCruiser Colorado)
Not sure about that. I just looked ont eh Toyota UK Website at the Colorado, and it looks absolutely nothing like the 4Runners being sold here. It looks like only two doors as well.
They did use a different namer in the states at one time - maybe SW4 and SW6 were the hilux & 4runner.
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A friend just called me about going out of town this weekend - off to do some jumping-off mountains.
He's driving us.
In his new Freelander.
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