Robins were always awful things <<
Depends which of the three incarnations you are referring to. The first 1970's one was cute but chassis rusted.
Second early to late 90's was a good update on earlier models and the last incarnation was a fairly modern looking if very expensive car ( but the depreciated so slowly they actually dont cost as much in real terms as they first appear ) which offers far better economy than any petrol, diesel or hybrid on sale today ( last models could do approaching 100 mpg on a run which owners have acheived, not just advertising claims like the Prius! ).
Sure you have to like them, but I owned one for a year and after i sold it, I wished I hadnt - they get under your skin, much as Minis do. They were cars designed for a very focussed role, something that you dont often get these days - aside from the initial outlay, they are exceptionally cheap to run and so simple to look after mechanically.
Gotta own one to understand one - they have their many fans for gud reason.
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> they get under your skin,
Much like scabies.
>they have their many fans for gud reason
They had few fans, if they had any fans you woul see them running around. You dont.
Re caterhams, (and all 7 varieties) yes they are fabulous fun cars, but they are toys, not for everyday use. You cant have one as your primary car.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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> they get under your skin, Much like scabies.
Infantile.
>they have their many fans for gud reason They had few fans, if they had any fans you woul see them running around. You dont.
Unless you have had direct involvement with the owners club, which Im quite sure you havent, what would you know? I have and its a diverse and enthusiastic bunch of people which is still gaining new enthusiasts, esp from the younger generation who think the Mini is too obvious.
Its one of the few cars that has a dealer network who know the cars inside out and repair rather than replace - these places are run by enthusiasts - my local dealer has been dealing with Reliants since the 1930's and he still makes a good trade from it.
Just because you dont like the cars, its no reason to display ignorance about the many who do.
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Just remarking that your argumant is flawed. There are not MANY who who appreciate these cars. If there were MANY in my 20,000 miles a year driving I would see MANY on the road. I dont. I saw about 5 last year. Just because you happen to belong to an owners club that can muster up 100 in a muddy field once a year, means you happen to bump into the 100 or so that still run these things (and lets face it - most do as a laugh hobby or joke)
Please dont try and make out these things are mainstream
You cant deny the orginal argument, the one that started in this thread, that reliant died because no one wanted the product. If they did they would still be made and sold.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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"....a British (I still spell it with a capital!) speciality?" No - anybody who downloaded the World of Cars 2005-06 catalogue recently, will have seen that this is worldwide. Here in Spain we have Comarth, Hurtan, Iguana, Black Baron, DCA, etc. Germany has RSC, Rudolph, Scheib, VM, etc. And so on across the world.
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"....a British (I still spell it with a capital!)
As should everyone.
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L\'escargot.
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>> "....a British (I still spell it with a capital!) As should everyone.
Même en français?
>;--)
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>> >> "....a British (I still spell it with a capital!) >> As should everyone. Même en français? >;--)
Zut alors! ;-)
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L\'escargot.
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"....a British (I still spell it with a capital!) speciality?" No - anybody who downloaded the World of Cars 2005-06 catalogue recently, will have seen that this is worldwide.
I had a flick through the World of Cars catalogue last night. I noted that as you say there is a worldwide market for nostalgia, but British designs do feature in the replicas and kit cars produced by other countries, and I think Britain has the greatest number of kit and replica manufacturers featured in the mag. Although for some manufacturers it states annual output being 0, 1, or 2 cars!
It seems almost every country in the world has companies making Cobra and Lotus 7 replicas; but also Gullwing Mercs, and various old Ferraris replicas are produced worldwide. The ones that seem equally popular to Lotus 7 worldwide are the Porsche Speedster and Spyder.
Tesco were selling the 2007 World of Cars catalogue at Christmas, its great isn't it...
Anyone for a Bentley Speed Six replica, built on a Fright Rover chassis? (Typo in the magazine, fright not freight!). www.kitcars.connectfree.co.uk/page195.html
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">I think Britain has the greatest number of kit and replica manufacturers featured in the mag.<"
SVA allows new kitcars onto British roads that would not be permitted in many EU countries, which is good.
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Just remarking that your argumant is flawed. There are not MANY who who appreciate these cars. If there were MANY in my 20,000 miles a year driving I would see MANY on the road. I dont. I saw about 5 last year. Just because you happen to belong to an owners club that can muster up 100 in a muddy field once a year, means you happen to bump into the 100 or so that still run these things (and lets face it - most do as a laugh hobby or joke) Please dont try and make out these things are mainstream You cant deny the orginal argument, the one that started in this thread, that reliant died because no one wanted the product. If they did they would still be made and sold.
Certainly its a question of numbers of people and 'many' is a matter of opinion but there are far more than '100 or so' of these cars on the road - they dont rust which gives them a high survival rate. There are likely more Rialtos on the road than MK1 Fiestas of the same age. I can if you would like, get the figures. My local Reliant dealer has atleast 30 for sale at any one time.
Reliants in the main are not cars that do many miles - thats why there are so many low mileage ones around as many were bought by retired folk on a budget, thus most of them spend their lives sitting in driveways waiting for the weekly shop. Hence you wont see them very often unless you spend your time winding through villages and backstreets.
I used to do 12,000 a year in my Rialto, but rarely did I venture onto dual carriageways or motorways as most of my business is in and around the local villages. Round Northampton, I see on a regular basis atleast 8 different ones just around town.
On the subject of them not being sold anymore - nothing to do with demand actually - the company who bought the rights to make the Robin from Reliant, B&N Plastics, started making an updated version but due to increasing european legislation had to stop production for 6 months while they modified it to meet the new rules, but this gap in production caused financial problems. Thus production stopped. Production is in mothballs until money can be found to cover the development costs.
Not demand, but the EU. Get your facts right, its readily available info.
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You cant use the EU as an *excuse* and thats all it is.
*Production is in mothballs until money can be found to cover the development costs.*
Means in car terms, "the demand is not there for a large enough production run to cover the costs"
If there was, there would be a business case to develop and build them and an investor would find the money.
I have my fact straight, you have you economic facts wrong.
Listen I dont want to pour cold water on your memories, probably fond ones, but face it - its deeply dead, and no wants that vehicle these days, Thats the bottom line.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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You cant use the EU as an *excuse* and thats all it is.
Im not using it as an excuse, its what was reported. Small companies cannot sustain continuing legislation changes over a short period of time because their profits are not large enough for huge investment at any one time - this is why Morgan has been so slow to go to USA - they have had to save up and make a careful decision. If the EU banned the use of wood construction, it would be goodbye Morgan for instance.
Your right that there isnt a huge demand, but there isnt a huge demand for Caterhams, Bristols or Morgans, but theres enough - change the rules too much too quickly and all these could be lost just like that. Still, you have to understand how small business works for it to make sense.
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I think half the problem with something like a Reliant Robin is that they're a relatively cheap car to buy -- Morgan can get away with building half a dozen cars in a month and still turn a profit -- something like a Robin would need to sell thousands to recover the development costs.
I have no doubt that there are probably several hundred eccentrics who would buy a new Robin, but that ain't enough for a sub-£10k car.
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I think half the problem with something like a Reliant Robin is that they're a relatively cheap car to buy -- Morgan can get away with building half a dozen cars in a month and still turn a profit -- something like a Robin would need to sell thousands to recover the development costs. I have no doubt that there are probably several hundred eccentrics who would buy a new Robin, but that ain't enough for a sub-£10k car.
I think that was the problem - hence they got rather expensive to make.
Apparently, the reason that the BN models ended was because Reliant screwed the new company as Reliant sold the rights to the Robin, but neglected to inform the new owner that their latest model didnt have type approval, thus making it illegal.
This is why BN didnt get far and they couldnt afford to make it meet type approval. Oversight on BN's part.
Apparently the reason that Reliants didnt change much over the years was precisely so they didnt have to submit the new models for approval and they were often registered as Rialtos so I have been told.
Production figures between 1973 and 2001 were 55,000. Not massive but not what you would call, no demand. There are in and around 9000 post 1980 Reliants still on the road and a fair few more off the road.
Some more info on why you may not see that many where you are - 60% of owners have two or more cars.
Quoted from owners club "Areas with the most in daily use appear to be Surrey down south, Yorkshire, Birmingham/Coventry and Scotland. In 2005 one a month was exported and nearly the same in 2006. They are becoming very popular in Australia, New Zealand and USA. "
I guess you gotta be north of the River to see one :-)
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">You cant have one as your primary car.<"
Yes you can!! However, the sense of occasion does diminish and the dishevelled, slightly demented appearance can be rather unsettling to clients, but you can always take them out for a spin. The drive-under-the-car-park-barrier is a surefire order winner for clients of a certain type.
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> The drive-under-the-car-park-barrier is a surefire order winner for clients of a certain type.
Are we still talking about Robins here??
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I used my Rialto for a year to carry my valeting gear to my jobs - customers loved it and my older customers thought it was a very patriotic choice and wanted to know more about the car.
All in all, it was good for business.
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> Areas with the most in daily use appear to be Surrey down south
I live in surrey. I know of 1 in use and a garden with three growing weeds.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Each to their own Stu, but is there no desire within you for at least a modicum of performance? The urge for some excitement? The throbbing between your legs? No, wait, that's motorbikes isn't it.
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Thats the thing Micky, people assume that Rialtos and Robins are slow like a 2CV - they arent.
While a 0-60 time of 15 seconds isnt fast, its faster than some of the smaller engined superminis sold today and up to 50 mph, its quite quick - snappy short throw gearbox, instant throttle response ( unlike todays awful setups ) and light weight make it far quicker than people expect.
As for motorbikes, when I was 18, I witnessed a MB rider be thown from his bike and into a field, loosing a few parts on the way - sort of put me off for life, especially as I had to stand up in a coroners court infront of his parents and tell them just how fast and reckless he was riding - sort of killed the idea for me thanks, tho I do like the sound of a Ducatti at full tilt :-)
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You wouldn't call a diesel Accent quick, but it has better performance figures than that....
I take your point though, of its time (early-70s vintage) that was a perfectly quick car. ISTR that the engine was one of the most reliable British designs available at one point as well -- much better than those god-awful Ford and BL lumps of the 70s that's for sure.
I wouldn't have one, but like a lot of cars they weren't as bad as some made out. The 3-wheeled ones *were* deathtraps, don't care what anyone says, but the Kittens seemed to me to be perfectly reasonable K-cars.
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Well in terms of performance, the Rialto 850 that I had is quicker than : Chevrolet Matiz 800, Citroen C1 HDi/Pluriel HDi/Belingo HDi 75, Fiat Panda 1.1/4x4, Ford Fusion 1.4 TDCi, Kia Picanto 1.0, Peugeot 207 1.4 75, Renault Modus 1.2, Skoda Fabia SDi, Perodua Kelisa/Kenari, Smart ForTwo, Toyota Aygo 1.4 D/Yaris 1.0, Vauxhall Corsa 1.0 and VW Fox 1.0/Polo 1.2.
Thats not every car but thats the small ones - the fact is that in this day and age, a 0-60 time of around 15 seconds is still the norm in small cars, so the performance of a Reliant is no worse and I would dare say sharper around town. So either these popular small cars have performace stuck in the 70's or the Rialto is acceptable today.
I would agree the engine is reliable - they are good for 200,000 between rebuilds which given when the unit was brought out, is exceptional for such a small one. Its also incredibly simple and easy to work on, unlike Minis.
On the subject of the deathtrap thing - its simple really - if you drive sensibly and know the limits of the car, you can hustle it along quite safely, but if you drive like an idiot, you may well end up in a hedge BUT the same could be said of any 1980's/90's 4X4 too.
Its only very recently that 4X4's have really started having ultra safe handling. Range Rovers of 20 years ago were downright dangerous if you have to make a highspeed change of direction - I saw the results many times as I worked at the bodyshop for a dealer who had plenty of the 90's ones in having been rolled.
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Hasn't production of Reliant Robins been moved to China like everything else?
tinyurl.com/2mx36f
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The worst thing about Reliants and all other three-wheelers was manhole covers-you'd hit them with one of the wheels.
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Yes you have a point, but generally you can drive round them as the Rialto atleast, was very narrow so you had plenty of road width to play with. More of a problem are speed bumps because if you dont take it gentle over them, it ruins the kingpin.
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