Hi
not turning over, battery dead and would not recharge
breakdown man says no charge from engine likely alternator
battery light not on
take to garage
tell them the story and say selling soon so dont want to spend much
i ring them later
they have changed the alternator but it still wont start, need to fiddle with wiring
I ask them whether there was actually a problem with the alternator
they say 'well its in now'
have not said anything else for now and am waiting for what they find
any advice about my next move...clearly dont want to pay for unecessary replacement but may be diffcult to prove
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Hi there, if you are concerned, have a quick word with your local trading standards, and then they should have a record of your concern, if anything else happens, cheers, graham.
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It is so easy to check the output of an alternator whilst the engine is running.
It could have been jump started to effect this.
It strikes me that they just assumed that the alternator was at fault and didn't think about checking it.
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I don't know much but if the battery is flat either it is dead or it isn't being charged by the alternator! Changing the alternator will not make the car start, it needs a charged battery as well, either yours recharged (why did it go flat)? or a new one. The next smart move might be to get it to an auto-electrician but if it isn't running I can see that you have a problem.
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they have changed the alternator and there is still no output from it so they are fiddling with 'wiring'
the question is are they going to charge me for an unecessary alternator - yes they are. how do i get out of this??
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Its bad policy to change a component (especially a fairly expensive one like an alternator) without first establishing that it is faulty. It is fairly easy to check an alternator in-situ and this is what should have been done, rather than jumping to conclusions.
You paid for their expertise (i.e. being able to daignose a fault) and clearly they have not delivered on this. They don't know what they are doing.
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how do i get out of this??
As per Graham Woods earlier suggestion - "have a quick word with your local trading standards"
Failing that, try your local CAB (Citizens Advice Bureau)
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>> how do i get out of this?? As per Graham Woods earlier suggestion - "have a quick word with your local trading standards" Failing that, try your local CAB (Citizens Advice Bureau)
What even before they've presented the bill? Ever likely they're busy and when confronted with a genuine complaint which takes nearly a year before they brush it under the carpet.
Speak to the garage first before TS / CAB, once the car is running that is.
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What even before they've presented the bill?
But he has already been presented with a bill for a new alternator.
"the question is are they going to charge me for an unecessary alternator - yes they are."
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Who says the wiring for the alternator is'nt open circuit damaging it in the same way as disconnecting the battery with the engine running?
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Is this a Vectra C?
Did you take it to an independant, or a Vauxhall dealer?
Number_Cruncher
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>> Who says the wiring for the alternator is'nt open circuit damaging it in the same way as disconnecting the battery with the engine running?
Before condeming the old alternator:
They should (1) check belt tension, (2) check for energising current from warning light circuit. (3) put a meter on the back of the alternator and start the motor up and check output.
Only then do you condem it.
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(1) Is a no brainer!
(2) presuming that the unit is'nt "self exciting" this is a Vectra
(3) Another no brainer, but should be checked under load.
(4) Have the unit bench tested at the factors before handing over for an exchange unit.
Would you agree with me that open circuit wiring would damage the alternator (no battery load)?
How would you feel if a customer were to involve the TS or CAB before you'd even written an invoice or explained what was the cause of the problem?
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To be honest, checking over an alternator is so basic I hardly think about it. Done loads of charging faults over the years and never wrongly replaced an alternator.
Just cliping the meter on the back of the alty will tell you a lot. Should see battery volts with ign off and output volts with engine running. Then switch loads on and check again.
Some cars (e.g. some Jap like Mitsubishi) have a 80A fuse in the alt cable which can throw you (usually battery has gone flat and someones blown the fuse when mucking about with jump leads). Generally if volts are down then its one of the triode pack rectifier that are faulty (gives 8-10V). If voltage is high its the regulator. Voltage low and wandering in/out is often brushes/slip ring.
Running without load will not do it any good - voltage can go very high and damage output stage, not to mention other electronics. Basic check of connections and earth strap (esp on GM cars) is a good start.
Wouldn't get into complaints to TS until the job is done and you've 'discussed' what you are going to be charged for!
"Think thrice, check twice, fix once".
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Good advice above. Much can be gained from connecting a decent voltmeter across the battery - charging voltage should be 14 to 14.5V which should drop a small amount with a significant load (HRW for example). With full load, (HRW plus all lights & blower), most cars will not balance at idle, and the voltage will fall rapidly to below 13V. Revving the engine should bring this back to just below 14V. Beware some diesels which leave the glowplugs on for a long post-heat (some PSA IDIs are like this). This can fool you into thinking the alternator can't balance the load.
The finest alternator fault I ever had was a Valeo unit fitted to a VAG PD diesel. No charge - alternator tested by specialist and declared OK. These diesels use a one way clutch behind the alternator pulley. This was in fact slipping, so the machine was not being driven fully by the engine. The tester used a fitting to drive the machine on the pulley nut - hence the fault didn't show up on his rig. That earned me a beer token.
659.
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A common reason for alternators not charging (on older cars) is that the ignition warning lamp has blown; have you (or the garage) checked this simple item?
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Can anyone please explain how the delay of 2-3 seconds between starting the engine and the alternator starting to charge (on vauxhall cars) is achieved, bearing in mind that here are only 2 wires (+ earth) connected?
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