Hi,
I'm a new member here and have recently asked a few questions about potential future cars and have received some excellent advice, so thanks very much.
I think I may be going about this the wrong way though, I have been suggesting potential cars and asking for your thoughts. What I really should be doing is asking what you would choose if you were in my shoes!!!!
I need an economical car that will cover approx 40,000 miles per year. It is a company car BUT I pay for all the fuel so it needs to be economical. It also needs a large boot as I have a small child and I also carry a lot of photographic gear around for a small business I am setting up. Most (90%) of my driving is on my 150 mile daily commute along the M4 at approx 70-75MPH. Few hills and I go out of rush hour so speed is fairly constant. I currently have a 320d touring which is just big enough but I really would like a bigger car. Due to a job change, my budget has also been cut so I can'g get another 320d SE touring. Currently considering the follwoing and would appreciate your thoughts and MPG experiences (if any) but please feel free to add others.
Thanks once again.
All on this list are diesels
Ford Focus Titanium Est 1.6 DPF diesel
Peugeotg 307 SW SE 136
Saab 9-3 Linear Spt Est Diesel 120
Mercedes B180 SE
Seat Altea XL 140
C4 Picasso Exec 1.6 Hdi
Renault Scenic Priv 2.0 Dci
Seat Altea XL 140 DSG
VW Touran SE 2.0 140
Renault Scenic Priv 2.0 Grand
Honda Accord Est Sport 2.2 Cdti
Saab 9-3 Lin Spt Est 150
BMW 318d ES
C4 Picasso Exec 2.0
Passat SE Est 140
Toyota Verso 2.2 T Spirit
Ford S-Max 2.0 Zetec
Reanult Laguna Initiale 2.0 Dci
Audi A4 Avt SE 2.0 140
PS I know that this is quite a varied list and as good as Mondeo's are, I don't really like them.
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PS - As it is a company car, I do not care about residual values, purchase price (other than company car tax), oil consonsumption, cost of servicing, tyres, insurance, etc
Thanks again
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Off that list I would go for the Honda Accord or the Toyota Verso in that order.
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I take it the S-Max is a diesel also? If so, that would be my choice.
Also I saw a C4 Picasso for the first time up close - it's huge, far bigger than you'd expect (or at least it seems to be) given the comparatively svelte C4 on which it is based.
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The Touran 1.9pd would fit your bill. Very flexible, huge boot, rides and handles well, Get an SE and its loaded with goodies. Mine does 48mpg at 75. Get it above 75 and economy drops through the floor.
Mine has been a bag of worms tho.
The Laguna Tourer is a cracking bit of kit, very comfy, handles well, very economical at speed, but its a "lifestyle" estate only - ie not much room inside.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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If you can get one of the Tourans with sports suspension they are really very good. (I hate MPVs but had to admit to being impressed with a Touran with sports suspension and the 140bhp diesel engine). I drive a 320d currently, and could happily live with one of these if necessary.
Not tried the Passat yet, but expect that it would be a strong contender. The A4 would be about the same size, but they are a wee bit cheaper.
Picasso/Scenic - No!
Saab 9-3 would also be on my list, though I've not tried their diesels.
How about a Mazda 6 of some description?
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consider the Vectra CDTI 150 goes well, carries 5 and has a huge boot even with the seat up
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I'm not sure the A4 or 318 ( and to a lesser extent the Laguna and Saab) will give you that much more space than you have. Generally I'd expect an estate car to cruise easier and more economically at 75mph than an MPV. That's my experience owning a Passat estate that gave 10mpg more than a Picasso (on your miles that would be £73 a month difference in fuel costs) Aerodynamics must be a factor as well as gearing.
A Vectra estate is a big car and the Vectra has a good reputation for motorway work . Of all the MPV's the S-Max probably but I'd want to test drive the C4 Picasso. There's £50 a month or so more to pay in tax if for example you went for the A4 or Laguna over the B Class or Scenic so that could make a dent in any savings you try to make in fuel costs.
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Official fuel economy figures are easy enough to come by, and no doubt you have checked them.
As far as real world fuel economy goes, there seems to be some anecdotal evidence that VAG diesels do fairly well - i.e. that the real world figures compare favorably with official figures - at least compared to other makes.
I don't know if there is any truth in this - hence the words "seems" and "anecdotal."
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Had a good look at the new Picasso in France a few weeks back. Seven seats remember, do you need seven? Additionally, you would fold the rear ones to get a boot worth mentioning and that might still be small considering your needs.
Surprised the Octavia estate isn't on your list: and yes from my experience VAG diesels do the mpg claimed.
As a wild card, how about a Skoda Superb? V6 TDI, loaded with kit, supremely comfortable and a huge boot. With the sort of kit you carry, as a saloon it's all out of sight.
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A Skoda isn't on my list as I'm not sure I cound get that one past the wife, she is a bit of a snob. Must admit, I do like the idea of a big lazy 2.5TDi Auto Superb fully loaded with kit but not sure it will deliver on the fuel front.
With regard to the 7 seat question, no I don't need 7 seats. The third row of seats would be folded to deliver the boot required.
Must agree that I think an estate will be better on the motorway than an MPV due to aerodynamics.
Any thoughts on the Seat Toledo/Altea option?
I would love an auto and it seems that the DSG option on the VAG engines doesn't hit the economy too bad (or so it seems!!)
a900ss
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On my admittedly limited experience, if I wanted fuel economy I would go with a VAG diesel. They seem incredibly frugal, plus in real world conditions feel quick and torquey.
SWMBO is using her sister's mkIV Golf GT TDI PD 115 at the moment and it is averaging 50 mpg in normal everyday driving. She is driving the car as she normally would, and is not "driving for economy".
I had use of my father in law's 03 reg mkIV Golf SE TDI PD130 estate last year and it managed 53 mpg on my commute for a week. The Mondeo does 47-48 mpg on an identical journey, and the Golf would leave the Mondeo absolutely standing in any accelerative situation. My brother in law also manages 51 mpg average from his 2001 Passat TDI 130.
Most sub 2.0 diesels are supposed to do 50+ mpg, but the VAG engines seem to be among the few that achieve it in the real world, without the driver paying particular attention to an economical driving style. I suspect it's because the engines naturally encourage a relaxed driving style with dollops of torque from pretty much idle upwards. Refinement is poor compared to the latest common rail stuff, but the PD's are still my favourite diesel engines.
Cheers
DP
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PS
My current car, the 320d touring, does about 50MPG in my normal driving. It can go up to about 57/58 if I drive carefully (65 ish).
It is definately more economical now at 110,000 miles under it's belt than it was for the first 30,000 miles. It only got about 46 MPG then.
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I must put a good word in for the Skoda Superb.
I had one for nearly a year - absolutely no complaints. Compared to it's 'sisters' the Passat & A4 and maybe old shape A6 it was (in 1.9 pdi guise) much more for less & better build quality (I had both A4 & A6 previously)
It's got a huge boot & excellent rear legroom (the latest Superbs have split-fold rear seats too) The current model is the 2L pdi with 140PS - same as the latest in Audi & VW. The Comfort model has climate/CD changer/cruise & sensible 205/55/16's My mistake really was to buy the Elegance - silly 225/45/17 & Tiptronic - didn't suit the 1.9pdi sady, although it had Zenons & solar sunroof. Economy will comparable with the VAG crowd.
..and people let you out of side-roads too..!
woodbines
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Any views on the Focus Estate with the 1.6 Diesel DPF engine. It looks like it will do mega MPG (65) and according to the reviews, it drives OK as well. Anybody have one and can comment on its motorway performance? I need to be realistic, I do a 150 miles commute so I need a car that is relaxing to drive as well.
Thanks
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a900ss - just interested to know how reliable your 320d has been over the 110,000k miles, as some of the earlier models (Sept 2001 to Autumn 2003) suffered from premature turbo failure. ???
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Absolutely NOTHING has gone wrong, not even a bulb has been replaced. Serviced every 21/22k, front tyres last approx 60k, rears approx 20/25k, Conti's (205's 17s). TOTALLY recommend this car just a little too small for me now.
It is quick, economical and well built.
If anything, it seems quicker at 110,000 miles than it was at zero miles.
Mine is the SE spec and has more than enough toys for most people.
If you have any further specific questions, please ask and I'll try to help.
a900ss
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PS , mine is a March 2004 model.
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Well let's have a go with a few thoughts which may or may not be helpful! Just a personal view and I don't claim expertise, only lots of miles' experience.
Ford Focus Titanium Est 1.6 DPF diesel - wouldn't you find the 2.0 more relaxing? Not sure about the Focus but the C-Max has a 6-speed gearbox which aids refinement and economy on motorways.
Peugeot 307 SW SE 136 - too many adverse comments about reliability by Backroomers
Saab 9-3 Linear Spt Est Diesel 120 - ditto, surprisingly, and I don't think Saabs do anything that an equivalent Vauxhall can't do just as well. Vectra 3.0 CDTI?
Mercedes B180 SE - I have a B200 CDI and the noise is raucous and unpleasant, escept on motorways when it's fine. Try one and see if you can put up with the noise.
Seat Altea XL 140 - a wildcard: you'd need to love the looks and be able to put up with appalling rear visibility. An Octavia does the job without those problems, and the badge really isn't an issue any more. If anything it says 'I've thought about this and chosen carefully, ending up with a good value workhorse which actually goes like a bomb'
C4 Picasso Exec 1.6 Hdi - check the engine is man enough for the body. There's a 2.0 but I've read that it has Citroen's dodgy semi-automatic transmission as standard - or is this a new transmission? Not sure.
Renault Scenic Priv 2.0 Dci - tempting: I had 7 trouble-free Renaults but that was before 2000 when they seem to have gone downhill. Better reports recently I think. Worth a look - comfortable and roomy, and Renault diesels are refined.
Seat Altea XL 140 DSG - as above. I've tried an Octavia with DSG and was impressed. No loss of performance or, I believe, economy.
VW Touran SE 2.0 140 - see TVM's comments. I'd go for a Passat - see below.
Renault Scenic Priv 2.0 Grand - there's now a 5-seat Grand which gives you all the boot room you could want.
Honda Accord Est Sport 2.2 Cdti - I think it's ugly, others rave about theirs. Try one. No diesel automatic but well reviewed.
Saab 9-3 Lin Spt Est 150 - as above.
BMW 318d ES - presumably too small like the 320.
C4 Picasso Exec 2.0 - check out the transmission. A runner if you like it.
Passat SE Est 140 - available as a manual or with DSG - personally if I were you I'd go for this. If you are OK with a manual try the new 170 bhp version.
Toyota Verso 2.2 T Spirit - very nice car but 7 seats are standard, which you say you don't need. All 5 rear seats fold flat but the floor is high. Again, if that isn't a problem this could be a winner.
Ford S-Max 2.0 Zetec - another strong contender, again with 7 seats as standard. I haven't looked at one but you'd need to see how high the floor is. No auto yet.
Renault Laguna Initiale 2.0 Dci - a Scenic has more room.
Audi A4 Avt SE 2.0 140 - my last car was a much-loved 2.5 TDI: this is probably over your limit and may not have much more room than the 320, but it's a great car.
So there you are - my shortlist would be A4 Avant if not too small, Passat Estate (quite a bit bigger), Octavia Estate (bigger still), Accord Tourer, or if you prefer an MPV it would be between the Verso and the Scenic, the Verso still being less likely to go wrong of all of them.
Good luck - have fun doing test drives - and do tell us what you finally go for.
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Thanks all,
I think I'm going to have a try in a Passat, an Accord, a Touran and a Scenic for starters.
I'll keep you updated.
a900ss
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Renault Scenic Priv 2.0 Grand - there's now a 5-seat Grand which gives you all the boot room you could want.
Interstingly, the 5 seater Renault Grand Scenic is more expensive to lease than the 7 seater even though the 5 seater has a lower purchase price!!! I guess it's all down to retained value.
The 5 seater 2.0 DCi Priv is £432.81 a month but the 7 seater is £425.19 a month.
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For your info a900s,How about Mazda 6 estate either 2.0 petrol (145 bhp) mpg-high thirties,or 2.0 diesel (141bhp)mpg- mid forties.I have the hatchback and I regularly acheive 39mpg on my long commute using 95 ron unleaded, or 41mpg using optimax(or whatever its now called).My father has 2.0 petrol passat est. and gets mpg-low thirties,but most of his driving is non motorway.
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Honda Toyota Audi for me.
C4 Picasso is a new model - well worth keeping an eye on the price waiting for Citroens usual policy to apply - which is:
1.Start with a high spec at high price
2.allow price to slide until sales reach desired level
3.then lower spec to match price.
If you can catch it right you can get in between steps 2 and 3 and get the high spec at the best price.
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Honda Toyota Audi for me. C4 Picasso is a new model - well worth keeping an eye on the price waiting for Citroens usual policy to apply - which is: 1.Start with a high spec at high price 2.allow price to slide until sales reach desired level 3.then lower spec to match price. If you can catch it right you can get in between steps 2 and 3 and get the high spec at the best price.
I'm playing that game at the moment with a C4 VTR+ HDI EGS auto. The spec is the same as launch and even with choice options ( met. paint, glass roof, CD changer, parking sensors, JBL Hi-fi) on top of the good standard spec. Hopefully the dealer can let me have one for £15 k.
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I'd recommend a Megane estate - massive boot for the size (bigger than the A4 etc and about the same as the Octavia) and when you've got the 130 BHP 1.9d it's very impressive indeed. And you do get an awful lot of kit with them. It's also not that common so is reasonable distinctive...
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I'd recommend a Megane estate - massive boot for the size (bigger than the A4 etc and about the same as the Octavia) and when you've got the 130 BHP 1.9d it's very impressive indeed.
I have asked this question about the Scenic and it was cut down in flames but what is the Megane est like with the 1.5 Dci (106) engine? That engine appears to offer fantastic economy. Overeall concensus is that is was too small an engine for motorway work in a big body like the scenic. But what about the smaller Meagane est and crusing at 70-75MPH?
Decisions, decisions
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1.5(106) is good in the Megane estate at 75-80MPH since it has a sixth gear for relaxed cruising. Unless you drive fully laden then this engine is fine.
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Ran a Megane 1.5 dCi 106 (Dynamique) Sport Tourer as a company car. I thought it had enough power for daily driving, and the engine was incredibly quiet from inside the car. Averaged around 50 mpg in the time I had it too.
Was less convinced about the car itself though. It didn't make 3,000 miles before its first electrical fault, and the interior quality was appalling. Panel gaps on mine were also the worst I've seen since a 1970's BL product. The tailgate was visibly off centre, the bonnet gaps were uneven, and after 2 months, the fuel filler flap was a completely different colour to the surrounding bodywork. This was a brand new Renault main dealer supplied car.
That said, it was comfy, refined, roomy and very well kitted out. Loads of clever storage space, integrated kiddies sunblinds in the back doors, and a very useful load area.
Try one and see what you think. Lots going for it, and good as a company car, but personally speaking, the quality would stop me from investing my own hard earned.
Cheers
DP
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Forget anything other than a diesel with a engine bigger than 1.6 if fuel economy is your main criteria. Expect fuel economy of around 60mpg on overall assuming you don't exceed any speed limits.
Go for either Ford Focus Titanium Est 1.6 DPF diesel or Megane 1.5 dCi 106, both are superb to drive and have lots of torque so even when fully loaded they will have plenty of grunt. Top gear in both is around 31mph/1000rpm so motorway driving is relaxed and quiet in them both and hoovering around peak torque at 70 mph. Test drive them both and check out which features you prefer or must have, also service intervals etc. Also worth consider what colour you prefer as some cars don't have particular good colours, and please please don't go for a dark grey, silver or dark silver, they are all but invisible on the road and should be banned on grounds of safety (or a lack of it).
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I did a bit of window shopping today, no test drives just visiting a few showrooms. The car that most impressed me - a Skoda Ocatvia!!!!
I can easily get a top of the range estate with full leather, heated memory seats, DSG gearbox, crusie, climate, xenons, etc and on top of that is has a huge boot.
How do I get the badge past the missus?
I think I definatley must add the 140 DSG maybe the 105 DSG to my list of cars to test drive.
Thanks guys for pushing me in that diercetion, I wouldn;t have gone there myself.
a900ss
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Change the missus?
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>>How do I get the badge past the missus?
Next time you go out in your car set the temp to very cold. She'll moan she's too cold. Tell her that your top priority in looking at a new car is to make sure she is comfortable and after a long and thorough search the Skoda is the only one that gives you and her dual zone climate. Job done.
PS My missus was "surprised" when I went for the Fabia vRS, now she wants it! Women eh?
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My missus was similarly surprised when I bought the Megane. "Why do you want a noisy and ugly car?"
Now I hardly ever get to drive it. Funny that...
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Or plan B - take her with you for the test drive and both of you try the Octavia. If you liked it in the showroom you'll be even happier on the road.
Mine was impressed (with a vRS) and will at least be content if I go for one next time.
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Just read this entire thread... and it has saved me writing 'Octavia'.
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Hi,
I have arranged test drives for the following vehicles:
Honda Accord Tourer
Citroen C4 Picasso
Renault Grand Scenic
Ford S-Max
Skoda Octavia Estate
Seat Altea XL
All requests are fot the diesels but I'll see what I am lent. I'll give a report of each car as and when I test them.
Thanks for your help guys,
a900ss
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Sorry, also forgot that I have also got the newVW Touran booked in as well!
I know that test driving 7 vehicles could appear excessive but I drive 40,000 miles a year. I really want to find the best car for me and if it takes this number of test drives then so be it.
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Thanks for your help guys, I've now placed my order!!!!
After lots of searching, I'm going with the Ford S-Max. It is a large car, with reasonable economy and I think it looks quite nice as well. I'm going with the 1.8 diesel as I feel it has adewuate performance and the saving over not taking the 2.0 diesel lets me spec the car up to 'X' spec: 18" Alloys, Leather/Alcantara, Panoramic Roof, etc.
I've been told it could take up to 12 weeks to arrive but when it does I'll give you regular reports to let you know how this vehicle is as an 800 miles per week car.
Thanks again for all your help guys.
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Hope you enjoy it. I'll be watching for your reports - I found the S-Max very easy to get along with, which counts for a lot when so many journeys are the sort you do because you have to, not because you want to.
Out of curiosity, what colour did you go for? It's a shape that seems more than usually colour-dependent (mainly because it's so big) and I've not yet seen enough around to form a firm opinion on what works best.
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I've decided to go with Metallic Panther Black. With the Privacy windows and 18" Alloys, I'm sure it will look extremely good as far as MPV's go.
Keeping it clean.... well that's a different matter!!!
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