Morning all,
just received my invoice in the post for my Honda i-CTDi's 25k service. On the invoice the mileage is completely wrong (stated as 12928) and they have specified that they have used Castrol Magnatec, not the correct Castrol SLX Fully Synth.
How much fuss should I be making here? I'm expecting them to come back and say that the invoice is wrong, but should I demand that they change the oil again for the correct stuff in any case, as otherwise I'll never be sure they've used the right stuff? Your thoughts please people.
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The oil they probably used came from a large drum/tank behind the dealership-as likely as not.
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Your thoughts please people.
You worry too much about that car :-)
I find the whole servicing thing so frustrating I could cry. I refused to pay for a VW service once because they hadn't ticked all the boxes on the service sheet so I asserted thay hadn't done the work - the guy snatched the sheet off me and just ticked all the boxes.
I'm convinced that most garages don't actually do anything to the cars that come in for service - just give them a wash (scratching them in the process) and then return them to their owners. Judging by the standard of work that most garages carry out, then leaving the car alone is probably the preferable option.
I long for 'sealed for life' cars.
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You worry too much about that car :-)
Damn right, the stupid thing costs me more than my house. It is lovely though, and is more comfy and faster than my house, so there are ups and downs... :-)
Honda rang back, they have checked the service sheet and the correct oil was used (apparently). They've been completely honest in the past when that's cost them money, so I'm incluned to believe them. I was billed for 4.5 litres of Magnatec not 6 litres of SLX because of a clerical error (they had a temp catching up the system as their computers were down for a couple of days). Their error has saved me about £40. Result!
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Had exactly the same problem with my vw gttdi in august.
Invoice says that they had put the wrong oil in so i rang them up and they say,we have checked the job sheet and the right oil was used but invoice written out wrong.
Like yourself i saved quite a few quid but it makes you nervous.
Could be wrong but i do believe they most probably only use two types of oil(if that)
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I'm convinced that most garages don't actually do anything to the cars that come in for service
What a comment on the whole trade!
But that is the reason why above everything else, I want to take my car to a garage which is run by people who do not believe that there is any such thing as a "white lie" and who will be completely honest with me.
In the motor trade (as in any other trade), the most valuable asset a business can have should be a reputation for complete integrity - in my opinion.
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>> I'm convinced that most garages don't actually do anything to the cars that come in for service What a comment on the whole trade!
Just don't get me started on tyre fitters and alloy wheels!! Is it mandatory to damage the wheels, and then shrug?
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>> Just don't get me started on tyre fitters and alloy wheels!! Is it mandatory to damage the wheels, and then shrug?
I was very impressed with my local tyre fitter who placed a plastic cover over the metal wheel clamp to prevent such damage.
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Likewise the local guy who came out to my place to put a couple of new tyres on. No damage at all, I was impressed.
Admittedly it's a shame that my gf and I then both kerbed the same alloy a few weeks later, but...
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According to the Honda handbook the diesel engine should have fully synthetic oil. I think it's SAE 0-5w.
I raised the issue at my first service because the dealer had used semi-synthetic. I spoke to Honda and was informed that it must be fully synthetic as per the handbook.
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According to the Honda handbook the diesel engine should have fully synthetic oil. I think it's SAE 0-5w.
That grade might help improve the (poor) economy of some of these engines!
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I don't think there really is an economy issue.
When new mine was certainly heavy on diesel, but after about 10,000 miles it was fine. They certainly need to be driven hard when new in order for them to be run in properly. After I did this it was fine, and nil oil consumption between services. Keeping to the limits on the autoroutes, and well laden, I now get more then 50mpg with my Tourer.
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Last year I bought a Honda privately and rang the main dealership that had (according to the service book and bills) looked after it for most of its life to ask them what oil they used.
The service manager said "I don't know, I'll go and ask the technician''.
Dunno what this means really, but it makes me vaguely uneasy about all the things they charged to its elderly widow former owner...
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Quotation from the Honda Accord i-CTDi handbook:
'It is highly recommended that you use any brand of 0W-30 synthetic motor oil meeting the minimum specification: ACEA B1'. Oil specification 0W-5 is certainly not suitable - in fact, I'm not even sure that such an oil exists.
The handbook also shows a chart of the ambient temperature ranges for various suitable (by implication) oils for the engine. The ACEA B1 0W-30W oil suitable for a temperature range of -25C to +35C. However an ACEA B3 10W-30 and/or ACEA B3 10W-40 are suitable for a temperature range of -20C to +35C but it suggests that using these oils '...... other than those of preferred viscosity may adversely affect fuel consumption'. I would suggest that, in our climate, the differing viscosities will have very little impact on fuel consumption.
The critical thing is whether the oil meets the ACEA (Association des Constructeurs Européens d'Automobiles) specifications B1 and/or B3. An explanation of these specifications can be found at www.infineum.com/information/consumer.html
Whether your average garage is familiar with these specifications is another matter!
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Just checked. A 0W-5 viscosity oil does exist but I think it's used for some exotic engines in the USA - certainly not used for Honda diesels!
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"'m convinced that most garages don't actually do anything to the cars that come in for service - just give them a wash (scratching them in the process) and then return them to their owners. Judging by the standard of work that most garages carry out, then leaving the car alone is probably the preferable option."
I suspect its the junior service staff that get the routine servicing at most dealers.
Much against my better judgement, mine went in for a first service, just to keep the warranty.
It came back 3/4 of a litre overfilled with oil. It was obvious driving home as I looked at the translucent panel in the five litre *can* of Mobil one I supplied., ( from France) with 1 and 1/4 litre left in........
( its a 3 litre sump capacity)
I just got the oil suction device I have out and sucked it back out.
Paid about £100 for basically a low mileage service, oil and filter change.
Then I had to get tools out to adjust the handbrake, presumably because its not part of the low mileage service.
It wont be going back, I will forgo the 3rd year manufacturers ( limited) warranty.
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Quotation from the Honda Accord i-CTDi handbook: 'It is highly recommended that you use any brand of 0W-30 synthetic motor oil meeting the minimum specification: ACEA B1'. Oil specification 0W-5 is certainly not suitable -
Yes, you are probably right. I couldn't remember the spec and wasn't going to the garage to find out.
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I find the whole servicing thing so frustrating I could cry. I refused to pay for a VW service once because they hadn't ticked all the boxes on the service sheet so I asserted thay hadn't done the work - the guy snatched the sheet off me and just ticked all the boxes.
Honda dealers tried the same thing with me, but I took it all the way (well, as far as I could at least).
Got me a free service though, but I'll bet they double-check the sheet again!
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=50535
does this mean that Honda dealers are starting to get a bad rep?
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>How much fuss should I be making here? <"
Depends how much effort you want to make.
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Reckon Magnatec 5w-30 should be fine though if you requested SLX and they cannot 100% confirm that it was used then ask for the oil to be changed again (not the filter) so you can be reassured.
Ask for the invoice to be reprinted reflecting the oil spec and correct mileage.
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its the Edge 0w-30 that replaced SLX, I think.
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I have always worried about what goes on in the murky world behind the closed workshop doors of these dealerships. They are far too blase' about what you are actually getting for the hundreds of pounds you pay out for servicing. Especially now with cars such as my PD engined Audi which requires such a specialist grade of oil.
I would certainly question what they have put on the invoice.
I only found out after my Audi's 40K service that they hadn't changed the air filter, when I questiooned them about it, at lease they didn't deny it, they just said that the lease companies (this was my own car) didn't like paying for luxuries like a new air filter at 40K miles ! However the silver lining was that I replaced it myself for a tenner from Eurocarparts so it was cheaper than letting them do it !
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I worked in a *respected* dealerships workshops very briefly as a teenager.
What went on, the disrespect of cars and fooling about with them, made me do all the work I possibly could myself for the last 42 years.
Actually it started before then... Age 14 my fathers car came back from a service and I looked it over ( I was just leaning about cars from a couple of Mech mags) It was a Victor 101 and the rocker cover was held on by big flat screws. Well, the slots in the screws were filled with engine grime and no way had a screwdriver been on them to take the cover off and check the tappets.
Dad took it back and confronted the mechanic...( at a small village workshop). The Mech said, " How do you know we have not checked them" ( said with a "you can`t prove it" tone) You should have seen his face fall when we pointed out the screws with the slots filled with grime..........
I can still see his face and where we were standing in the workshop although its 44 years ago. A *big* lesson being learnt and my first experience of adult dishonesty.
Work took me in a different direction to cars but to date servicing 22 family cars over 42 years I have saved us almost £49,000 in service costs.
So a big thanks to Mechanic Ain****th all those years ago :)
I don`t do brakes anymore, but stand over them supervising at the local brake & tyre place while work is in progress.
And I buy cars that dont need difficult work in regular servicing.
IMHO, Lots of cars are just oil & filters with no other work neccessary on the engine, timing chain and hydraulic tappets help this.
Re the Honda, if it were mine I would do an oil and filter change myself using synthetic, at least then you *know* its been done. IMHO worth it for the peace of mind.
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">but stand over them supervising at the local brake & tyre place while work is in progress.<"
Yes! With clipboard? ;-)
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Gordon M, I just had a similar experience with my Honda diesel - the invoice described the car as a 2.0 (petrol) and the oil as semi-synth. I asked what oil they had used and of course they said "if it's a diesel we'll have used the full synth, it's just that the person who did the invoice thought it was a petrol - actually that means we didn't charge you enough". Having been ripped to the tune of £165 for an oil and filter change, a stamp in the book, and a lot of ticks on a form (which they refer to as a 12,000 service) I declined to pay the extra.
It doesn't inspire confidence.
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Interesting reading the posts on the Honda 2.2 iCTDi. I'm just about to have my first non-Honda service, so I thought I'd buy the oil, just to be on the safe side. Here are my findings ...
Last two Honda services - "Shell Helix Semi Synth". The only one I can find is Shell Helix Plus which is a 10w-40.
Now the handbook "highly recommends 0w-30 synthetic ACEA B1" - so interesting the dealers don't use this. (Mine came 2nd-hand with a litre of Helix Ultra in the back - a 5w-40 fully synth).
HOWEVER - the handbook also lists several other viscosities and a spec - ACEA B3. The only riders are 1) higher viscosities may affect fuel consumption, and 2) low temperature limitations. 10w-40 is the highest viscosity recommended, and that's OK right down to -20C.
So it looks like Honda dealers are using the 'poorest' recommended grade - hmmm.
I'm going for Comma Xtech - 5w-30 ACEA B1. Should give OK fuel consumption (better than Honda's 10w-40 - no wonder my mpg's only 41) and as a semi synth it should be cheaper than the 0w-30 stuff - another bonus as it takes 6 lts!
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I'm going for Comma Xtech - 5w-30 ACEA B1. Should give OK fuel consumption (better than Honda's 10w-40 - no wonder my mpg's only 41) and as a semi synth it should be cheaper than the 0w-30 stuff - another bonus as it takes 6 lts!
I think that is the one made to Ford / Jag spec, so suitable for turbo / CR etc, should be fine. Comma make fine oils inc Halfords own which are very good value accordingly.
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I've had my honda for just over 5 years now and have been very pleased with the service.
They are go over the car with a fine tooth comb and it always comes home feeling alot better than it went away. It always comes back spotlessy inside and out with no marks on it or greasey paw prints.
This time they did put a little too much oil in it. I don't suppose it is enough to do any harm and at least it won't need me to spend any money on topping it up my self.
I was thinking about changing it, but after they serviced it it drives like new, so why bother?
If at any time there are any issues regarding the correct grade of oil, I will just point them to their computer and say "you serviced it, so if you got it wrong, you put it right."
I really think if you are not happy with Honda service, you won't like the service any dealer gives you.
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I really think if you are not happy with Honda service you won't like the service any dealer gives you.
it's the dealership that is servicing the car, not Honda! i wouldn't confuse the two.
there's plenty of bad dealers out there, Honda included.
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