If you are buying a new car, I remember people used to quote an annual mileage figure of about 15,000 needed before it made economic sense, taking into account the extra cost, and extra servicing.
If one were to be buying a 3 or 4 year old car, spending eg.£ 6-7000 , does anyone know if the "payback" mileage is the sae, or is it less or more, given that the car is cheaper to buy , but then again, the steepest portion of the depreciation curve is over.......
Petrol is also much more expensive now too (but also diesel seems to not being discounted as much as petrol)
Then again the 3yr old diesel car will probably hold its value better than the petrol one - would the chepaer purchase price of the equivalent age petrol car be a big factor in this calculation ?
Does anyone have nay clues as to what the mileage payback would be ? Or at this price range is it worth anyone going to diesel ?
I don't do a huge mileage, but am debating wether to buy a much older bigger petrol engined car, eg. (P) plate Subaru legacy , or to buy a 3 yr old modern diesel, woith hopefully equivalent performance, but which of course will be more expensive to purchase, but cheaper in fuel... eg 2003 current shape Avensis...
What are the swings & roundabouts debates :-)
|
I just noticed the thread on "CR Diesels Residuals"........
So v. expensive if hte diesel goes wrong, which of course would wipe out the savings made unless you do a huge mileage ?
|
Sorry to sound brusque,but buy what YOU want, afterall it's your money that is ultimately going to be lost whatever you buy.
Whatever your choice,there will me someone who can give you a dozen reasons to do the opposite.At the moment there seems to be
a diesel bashing trend going on,but you try getting your luxobarge repaired if it goes wrong and the bill will be equally hair raising,especially withthe electronics.
I drive a VW BORA TDI 130 and in real world driving gives me what I want, exceptional MPG combined with comfort,quality construction and certainly performance.Tthat was my choice with my money .
|
I have a strange aversion to putting fuel in my car so I'm willing to pay extra for a diesel car. It could be false economy but I really do find that having to fill up too often depresses me. I suppose the other thing is that thought of driving a motor that can't 40mpg when others do seems very wasteful.
Horses for courses.
---
Xantia HDi.
Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
|
This reminds me of another thread I read somewhere, but not on this forum. Someone was doing had a crystler voyager and was worried about fuel consuption (they did about 30,000 miles a year) and there fuel bill was about £400-£500 a month, working out to £4,800 to £6,000 a year! With help of some funds they had their thought was to trade in the voyager for a more economical MPV. Their car was worth about £10,000-£15,000 and their extra spending money was worth £10,000 to £15,000. The idea was thus to spend £25,000 on a new car.
The thing was even if they found a large fuel effecent MPV that had the same practicality as the voyager, but was also was twice as fuel effeicent they would save a maxium of only £3000 a year in fuel. If you add in the cost to change, the lost interest on their money and the steeper depreatation of a new car, the savings would be almost all wiped out. Yes the Voyager is a bit thirsty but their one was a diesel IIRC. Halfing the fuel bills would thus have been difficult, unless prehapps if they converted to LPG.
You need to work out the estimated total cost of running both cars, which as you say includes repair bills. A P reg. Subaru sounds rather expensive in that it may need major repairs in a few years, however the diesel engine of the other car may need wallet emptying repairs too.
Glowplug's sentiments are usally irrational, like he admits and my above story shows. For some people it hurts less to pay an extra £1K upfront rather than spend an extra £800 on fuel, but feel the pain every week.
-----------------------------------------------
Torque means nothing without RPM
|
|
To work out the payback you simply need to play in Excel - taking into account residual value, insurance, servicing etc. Not too big a problem, really.
|
In what way does it cost more to service a diesel car?
IMO many of the faults people get with diesels is lack of proper servicing. I think Vauxhalls are going to 30,000 mile services, VWs are around 20,000 miles, as are BMWs and MBs. My Passat diesel only holds 4 litres of oil, fancy leaving it in, even when new, for all those miles.
A friend with a new Audi 2.0 litre diesel asked me what this light was for, it needed 1 litre of Castrol's finest. Many people haven't a clue how to look after their cars and the long service intervals do not help at all.
If I were you SS I would buy a diesel car, but make sure you get one that has had regular oil changes, preferably with the correct oil!
As for a Mondeo TDCI: I prefer a VW diesel. The engine in my VW is in a different planet to the TDCI engine in my Focus. It is more powerful, uses less diesel, starts better and pulls from much lower revs.
|
|
You might also want to consider a 3 year old petrol model versus the 3 year old diesel model - the petrol Mondeos, Passats, Vectras in fact just about any mainstream car, are considerably cheaper to buy than their diesel equivalents and potentially less likely to clobber you with big problems. My previous 2 ltr petrol Mondeo would give me 33mpg on mixed driving and my current Fabia diesel gives me 45 mpg. Using this as a very rough guide, for ever 1,000 miles you drive it will cost you around £32 in fuel if you went petrol. If you don't do a lot of miles then you're unlikely to recoup the extra cost with fuel savings. Me, I prefer the driving characteristics of a torquey diesel - I do miss the Mondeo's handling though!
|
>>In what way does it cost more to service a diesel car?
Oil change every 6k instead of every 12k. (or 3k instead of 6k, or whatever)
|
"Oil change every 6k instead of every 12k. (or 3k instead of 6k, or whatever)"
Or on my diesel, and my wife's, and my son's every 12,500 miles. Oh, and on my daughter's, every 18,000 miles.
And, since an oil change can be done for about £20 it would hardly be a significant extra cost compared to the other costs of running a car - especially if your diesel does 50 mpg.
--
Phil
|
|
|
|
Servicing costs are/can be an issue because many diesels have shorter servicing intervals.
Only by taking account of all running costs can the OP correctly work out the payback time for the extra purchase price.
|
|
" many diesels have shorter servicing intervals." They used to have, but oils and engines have moved on: there must be very few diesels with a shorter OCI than petrol engined vehicles.
|
My TDI Bora had it's first service at 19000 miles.it has now done just over 30000 and although it has been subject to a lot of short runs,the service indicator has yet to alert me,as to when the next service is due.
BTW,it is on long life servicing using Castrol longlife oil.
Correct me if I am wrong,but is it not true that fully synthetic oil does not actually wear out.
Waits for someone to say,thats all well and good,but when the three years warranty is up,the engine will blow up through lack of oil changes !
|
Many people do moan about the lengthening service intervals of the last decade and see it as a false economy. It is thought that manufacturers extend service intervals, thus lowering running costs to attract fleet buyers. Fleet buyers only keep their cars for a few years and after the 3rd year the engine dies.
Another opnion is that the lengthening of service intervals does not damage engines that much. The amount of engines that fail due to lubrication issues is very small. IMO most of the extra engine damage caused by extending the service intervals will be caused by people not checking their oil levels between services, as a lot of people do. 15K miles on one oil change is fine. 15K miles without checking the oil level is something else!
-----------------------------------------------
Torque means nothing without RPM
|
surely some of the arguement for diesel is that once you've budgeted for and bought the car....... at which point you've written off that money........ your running costs following this are then less than petrol.........and the more miles you do, the better benefit you get
in other words once you've taken the big hit (and yes, at that stage, petrol might well be close to diesel in the big scheme of things) the monthly costs will be lower, which will give you more money in your pocket every month.
Unless you're paying more in a loan or similar for the diesel car (as opposed to a petrol one) your monthly accounts will be healthier..... as not many people would buy a petrol car that is cheaper than a diesel and put what they've saved into an account to offset there more expensive petrol bills, do they?
|
|
|
