We will shortly be having a second child and would like to buy a bigger second hand car and have decided on an estate.
We have shortlisted either the Audi A4 Avant or a BMW 5 Series Touring but are at bit of a quandry over which to choose. High mileage, slightly older BMW or lower mileage, slightly younger Audi? Or better still would an older and higher mileage Audi represent the best opportunity - saving money but still offering a great car and best valiue for money?
We've spoken to both BMW and Audi dealers and as you'd expect they all recommend their marque over the competition.
I'm sure both cars would be excellent but my head says Audi but my heart says BMW.
Our requirements are fairly straightforward
- good/big boot space
- good fuel economy
- annual mileage circa. 8,000-12,000 miles
- manual or automatic ( what's best?)
Budget is anything up to £17,000 but it might be that you advise us to spend £10-£15k on an older Audi with higher mileage to get the best all round deal which is what we're all after.
Which car and which model?
Also what is the best time in the month to buy a used car to leverage opportunity for negotiation? Is it still the end of the month when sales people are trying to hit their bonus?
Could you please advise.
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Personally I'm an Audi fan, though I know the 5 is a fantastic car of course. I really like my A4s in particular. You should be able to pick up an A4 Avant 1.9TDI 130 on a 54 Plate for about £13-14k. I'/d personally have a Sport rather than an SE on this generation A4 as they drive a little better, while not being unduly uncomfortable in my opinion. The TDI 130 is as quick as anything and will in the real world beat 1.8T and 2.4 petrol versions. It will also get you 50-55mpg without much effort at all. The Multitronic Auto is good if you make sure your had the oil changed at 40k as recommended otherwise they can cause issues. You will pay about 8mpg for it though, and there is a slight hesitency when moving off from rest. So that would be my choice. It's not the largest estate in the world, but you should happily get 2 kids + clobber in.
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FWIW, my sister has an A4 estate (an 03 Reg) and finds it too small for two children & all their associated paraphernalia (prams, etc) - as was the 3-series tourer before it. But with impecable female logic, a 5-series is "too big".
My Subaru Legacy has more room & carrying capacity than the A4 (as well as being nicer to drive and cheaper), but would doubtless fail the fuel economy test, so I'm unlikely to convert you!
Rgds
Davros
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The A4 avant has good but not large boot space. Its a lifestyle estate, not a practical one.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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This sort of money will get you an absolutely mint condition previous shape BMW 530d Sport Touring. Absolutely stunning cars, better than the A4 in virtually every possible way. You will not regret it.
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Where do you live, would rear drive BMW give you traction problems in poor weather?
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A4 = 3 Series
A6 = 5 Series
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Agreed: I looked at A4 avants, but my 6 ' 2" 17 year old couldn't fit behind me. We bought an A6 saloon. Problem solved. A4 suspension is overly complex and can get very pricey.. Our A6 with sports suspension sits flat and rides nicely.
Tim{P}
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Where do you live,
Live in Teddington in Middlesex.
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No offence Davros, but it seems to be a reflection on modern society that children equals loads of space required. Don't know much about the A4 Avant, but to have an estate car and say it does not have enough space for 2 kids and their "stuff" I think says more about their "stuff" than the car!
Its like my cousin who on the birth of his first child traded in his Megane for a Touran cos he felt that he needed the extra space. And he did, with the designer buggy and prams, the bags, the toys etc.
I remember going on a touring holiday round Scotland with my first child in a Clio and that included her buggy and travel cot!
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Yup
I did two weeks in france with a 12 month old in a mk 3 cavalier saloon. Included travel cot. No problem
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Neither Audi nor BMW are brilliant for boot space unfortunately - if you wanted really big you'd buy an Omega, C5, Mondeo, Passat or Accord for several thousand less. There's very little in it between these two.
Good fuel economy means diesel. Only the Audi is available as a four-cylinder but as a six, the BMW is more economical. Given your low-to-average annual mileage I'd not say that it matters too much.
My instincts are to go for a manual - autos knock about 5 mpg off the BMW's economy and about £1,500 to the price. However if you want an auto (and most buyers for these cars do) by all means get one.
£17k will buy you the very nicest of the E39 5 Series - in fact there's a promising looking 53-plate 525d manual on the Trader with 53k on the lock - meaning it'll take you four to five years before it hits 100k - up at £14k and that's probably where my money would go. Alternatively you could get a slightly newer (1-2 year old instead of 3-year-old) A4 and use up more of your budget but I doubt that you'd have anything more satisfying or better quality if you did so.
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I went through a similar dilemma a couple of months ago. The three cars at the top of my shopping list were Audi A6, BMW 5 Series, Volvo V70. All three are very good cars. I did plenty of research before making my choice and most confirmed that the previous E39 5 Series was the class leader - after a couple of months of ownership I can confirm that the BMW offers a great combination of load capacity and driver enjoyment. I ended up with a '99 528i auto, but this is NZ and Kiwis have almost forgotten how to change gear manually and diesel cars are still very rare. I have averaged about 28mpg after a couple of months.
Go with you heart and you will not be disappointed.
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Modern illness, got to have bigger car just because of family. Nonsense. Just means wife and kids take more junk with them.
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Like davros, I am also unlikely to convince you to broaden your shortlist.
without knowing your financial circumstances, another child means expense and 99% of cars bought privately depreciate. If your annual mileage is only 12k pa then the cost of depreciation on a £12k vehicle will be more than the difference in fuel between obtaining 30mpg or 40mpg should you buy a cheaper vehicle. When I needed more space I bought a 4 year old 'R' reg GLS Legacy for £3500, ran it for 4 years, sold it for £1900 and averaged 32mpg. In 4 years it only needed new tyres and rear bushes,(£30 inc labour) plus routine maintenance. Interior space was far superior to friend's A4 Avants and Foresters, and was superior to the new Legacy Sports Tourer...seats up 488 litres, seats down 1692 litres.
The downside on buying an older vehicle, and saving ££thousands, is the lack of safety features. My old Legacy only had 2 airbags, and I know if I had young family this would be a serious consideration as I would like to surround all the occupants with airbags, crumple zones etc.
Best of luck with whatever you choose.
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A very tough call !
I have an A4 Avant and it has been a great car in every respect. However as others have pointed out the Avant doesnt have massive load-space and the 5 series is also a truly great car. In fact I have the same dilemma myself and have come up with the following conclusions :-
The A4 will lose less value than the same money spent on a 5 series.
For the budget you are talking of you can get a fairly new A4 whereas you would have to settle for a much older 5 series touring. I think there are probably less decent 2nd hand 5 series tourings in the marketplace also.
The running costs of the A4 Avant would also be lower with the variable servicing regime.
If it was just a straight choice between the two it would be no contest, but on a purely economic basis I think the Audi wins.
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If boot space is a consideration, surely the 5 series is the one to choose as its the larger car? As pointed out above, the A6 would be equivalent Audi (as far as size is concerned) to the 5 - have you considered one of these?
Option 2, if you're willing to consider it, is to get a VW Passat estate - you'd have a brand new one for your budget, combining Audi build quality with BMW boot space. Or you could buy a 3 year old one and pocket the difference.
Option 3, save even more and have a new/nearly new Octavia estate, which offers at least as much space as the A4.
Can we ask what your current car is? Maybe with a little lateral thinking its perfectly up to the job of transporting child and paraphernalia, saving you the cost and hassle of changing car entirely...
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Not sure if "which car and which model?" refers only to the Audi/BMW choice, or if you're looking for alternative suggestions too. If the former, the BMWs I've driven have never felt right in terms of seat height/backrest angle adjustment (older 5 Series) or else the lack of space for my left foot beside the clutch pedal (older 3 Series). I don't know whether the more up-to-date versions have improved on these basic (to me) issues. Any VAG car I've been in (I own two) has been superior in terms of being able to find exactly the right position for me.
If the latter, have you thought of the Mazda6 or Honda Accord estates? Both look well (although I think the overall shape of the Mazda is more balanced than the slightly hearse-like appearance of the Accord) and both have loads of boot space, above-average reliability, etc. I think that if opting for diesels, the Mazda would be more economical than the Honda one, but if petrol-engined then the Honda would probably be the better choice.
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andymc
Vroom, vroom - mmm, doughnuts ...
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I agree that the A4 is too small - check out the dimensions of the boot and rear legroom with child seats in place and you will see what I mean. I had a similar requirement as you a few years ago and ended up with a Merc C-class estate, since up-sized to an E-calss estate as the family expanded.
But of the choice between an A4 or a 5, it would have to be the 5 - with a good warranty.
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