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Hi. I bought an Alfa147 1.6 Lusso from a 'reputable' car supermarket two months ago and in that time, over 1,000 miles, it has used 3 to 4 litres of oil. The garage could find no leak and no signs in the coolant, meaning its being burned through the engine. It is 3 years old and has done 65,000 but I think this is unreasonable and not general wear and tear. I am going back to the supermarket trying to get them to pay for repairs (maybe a new engine is required!). Any ideas of what my chances of success will be or any experiences of this problem with Alfa 147s? Much obliged.......
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Well the HJ Car By Car breakdown just to the left <<<<< has one comment applicable maybe:
15) Engine uses oil.
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I agree though there is something amiss there; the engine may be prone to burning/losing oil but 1ml per mile is about the limit of what is acceptable really (ie 1 litre per 1000 miles). Any more than that and you have to be a bit concerned. If there is no leak, then the engine must be burning it, and that would show up (a) at MOT, and (b) the ECU would be screaming merry hell.
Has to be a leak surely?
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I think this is well-known with certain Alfa. In fact I have heard that some engines have been damaged because drivers are not doing regular weekly oil level checks and top-up and hence engine is running low on oil.
My worry is that at that rate of consumption the catalyst is getting saturated with oil and you will run into trouble at the emissions check on your next MoT.
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It is definitely worth a try. Maybe the car supermarket won't know about this issue. If I were you, I would try to get them to take the car back. You are quite right, it probably needs a new engine.
I'm not sure if anybody ever got to the bottom of this oil consumption, but 3-4 litres in 1000 miles is waaaay to much. It won't make you feel any better, but I have the same engine in my 145 and apart from the 12,000 mile oil change I have NEVER had to top up the oil. So they can be built right and perhaps you have a dud. I wonder why the car was at the car supermarket.
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To put it into units I can understand, 4 litres in 1000 miles is 142 miles per pint. At that rate of usage I would expect the car to be followed by a plume of smoke, especially when accelerating after decelerating or idling. Didn't you notice anything during the pre-purchase test drive, or is it something which has happened since you bought it?
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L\'escargot.
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Oil burning at this level is not acceptable. Even 1 litre per 1000 miles is not good enough in my view. Yet this level of burning is considered within tolerance by some manufacturers.
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It seems an extraordinary retrograde step. If these levels of tolerance are now becoming normal, it means that a significant proportion of all lubricating oil produced ends up being burnt, instead of reclaimed and recycled. What's the point of measures to improve fuel efficiency if cars are now being designed to burn oil instead?
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I've done 140,000 miles in 9 years with one of these engines and it hasn't required topping up with oil. I fail to see how, over time, the engineering manufacturing tolerances have slipped to create this level of oil consumption.
One possibility is the change in location for the manufacturing of some of the engine components. It is well documented that the trnasfer of manufacturing to lower cost locations can have a horrendous effect on quality. Perhaps this is what we are seeing and the manufacturers excuse is that this is 'normal'.
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The dealer is definately responsible for the pre-existing fault.
I believe a lot of engines burn oil because they're not properly run in, i.e not driven hard enough so things don't bed in properly (especially on fully synthetic).
A mate had an M Class - burn't oil like mad, not to mention his money (think he lost £10k in a year)
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You have had the car for less than six months, so there is a presumption in law that the fault was there at the time of purchase. It isn't an old banger, it's a three year old car. So take it back to them.
Most people don't appreciate that most cars are sent away with the tolerance of using 1 litre per 1000 miles. In general, I don't think most modern cars do use any oil, but by placing a single sentence in the handbook they can cover themselves against oil being used.
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"Most people don't appreciate that most cars are sent away with the tolerance of using 1 litre per 1000 miles."
You are probably correct. But I have a word for the motor manufacturers - most people would find this unacceptable. I certainly do and any car manufacturer that inflicts this level of oil burning on me won't get another order. My car doesn't use a drop of oil between services and I wouldn't expect it to until the mileage gets over 100K.
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I seem to recall the manufacturer of the Hillman Imp/Chamois range stating that up to a pint in 500 miles was normal. This was qualified by the explanation that a certain amount of oil usage was in fact necessary to ensure adequate lubrication of reciprocationg parts such as pistons and valve guides etc. I remember being somewhat concerned when some years later I bought a car which would go between services without needing the oil topping up.
One of the things which results in a high oil consumption is a high compression ratio. Does this apply to the car in question?
If you are having to top up the oil frequently at least you know it's being regularly renewed.
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L\'escargot.
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A couple of years ago my brother had an Alfa saloon, 146 I think? The one with the hidden rear door handles!
It was a company car and the company had a few on the books, apparently the transport manager issued several warnings to the Alfa drivers to check the oil regularly, and to stop straight away if the oil warning light came on (yes, some people didn't think this was serious and could wait until the next service!)
I'm sure oil consumption isn't an uncommon problem, whether it's bad enough to get your money back I don't know. The dealer might say (as they've been trained to say for generations) "They all do that, sir"
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No it'd be a 156. This is why Alfa get so much bad press, Co. Car drivers who don't care & couldn't find the bonnet release handle if their life depended on it & don't read the hand book & engine blows up! It then becomes ^£$£" Alfa rather than their incompetence & lack of care. Some Alfa's seem to use a fair bit & others don't, it also seems to depend on the oil used, my Alfa 75 on Shell Helix semi synth used virtually nil between services but loads on other makes, all the same grade. Incidentally my Porsche handbook deems acceptable anything up to 414miles per litre!
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My old company's car policy was very strict. Basically, if your car suffered any damage through your neglect to keep the fluids topped up, they deducted the entire repair cost out of your salary. If you were lucky, they'd do it over 6 months, although 3 was standard. This wasn't just a threat either - it happened to a few people. Same with fault accidents, and allowing the car to go more than 1500 miles overdue for a service - a £500 fine out of your salary in one hit. No negotiation and no exceptions.
I've never seen 100,000 mile cars come off a fleet in such good nick.
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Years ago inherited a Mk2 2.8GL Granny Estate from our MD as a co. car. Found out that it had only been serviced 3 times in 85K miles! Each of these were when it broke down. He then got a Nissan Patrol & drove that until it broke. As it happened with a head gasket failure, the leasing co. billed him the full costs & as a Scotsman he was not happy!
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