At some point I will be changing the transmission fluid on my 1995 Toyota Celica 2.0i 16v (175bhp) Automatic. It is a 4-speed arranged as 3plus O/drive button, as Ithink most Toyota autos are. It is 6th Generation Celica (one with 4 separate headlights)
The car is a grey import by the way ( I am not sure if transmissions differ to UK spec Celica.)
it is my intention to change fluid every service, as it is a relatively simple operation and I hope will extend gearbox life greatly.
The dipstick is stamped Dexron II.
I notice most of the fluid on the motorfactors shelves is now Dexron III, which from doing some research is an "enhanced specification" fluid compared to Dexron II.
From what I can see Dexron III is only marginally more expensive than II, by the way.
III has supposedly better restsistance to degradation, oxidation, and thermal stability, and it holds its viscosity better at higher temperatures.
My question is thus.......
Can I use Dexron III instead of II, as it sounds a better/superior product - will there be any advantages to this ?
Or indeed because it is an older transimission designed with Dexron II in mind I should stick with Dexron II because the newer fluid will cause problems/poor shifting because the fluid properties are slightly different ?
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D-III is your best option.
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Will D3 blend OK if there's a drop of D2 left in the box when it is drained? I'm thinking about doing an extra change for the transmission fluid on the Prelude because I'm not sure the dealer ever did everything on the service schedule.
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Yes it will. But I think your Prelude should probably have 'Hondamatic' ATF in it.
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Thanks for the info Aprilia
JUst out of curiosity what is the difference between Dexron III/II and some manufacturers own fluids eg. Hondamatic ?
In know al ot is just (expensive) re-bottled Dexron fluids, but why do manufacturers design 'boxes that take non-standard fkuids ? Surely it makes sense to stick with something that uses an industry standard fluid ? Or is it so that they can screw more money out of our pockets becauses "it has to have the special fluid !"
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Handbook says Honda's own or Dexron II - but that's no reassurance for a paranoic like me is it!
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JUst out of curiosity what is the difference between Dexron III/II and some manufacturers own fluids eg. Hondamatic ?
Don't forget that "Dexron" was only the General Motors standard name for ATF, so it's just an "own brand" like Hondamatic. Read the small print on the back of a bottle of ATF, and it might mention that it conforms to Hondamatic spec as well as Dexron II/III. Likewise, VW insist on using their own standards for engine oil, while everyone else is happy using the equivalent API/ACEA specs.
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The only ATF that complies with the Honda spec is Honda's own or the Unipart one. There was a place selling an additive pack that bought Dexron2 up to Honda spec, but I've lost the details. There are a number of ATF's around with ambiguous wording like 'suitable for' and 'replacement for', but none have actually been tested to, and therefore meet, the Honda spec.
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Vehicle manufacturer spec oils = tracers elements when it comes to warranty claims?
Or am I cynic through and through.... But then I drive a company car... and it was keyed down one side this afternoon so not so happy despite not costing me anything.
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Many manufacturers now recommend their own proprietory ATF's. In general these are similar to, but not exactly the same as, Dexron III ATF. Usually they are a little more highly friction modified than Dexron. This is important in the operation of things like torque-convertor lock-up clutches where 'shudder' can be evident if the wrong fluid is used. Typical proprietory fluids are Hondamatic, Mitsubish Dia SP-III, Nissan Matic-D, Toyota/Lexus T-IV, Ford Mercon IV/V etc etc. Usually its a case of Dexron III being OK, but the proprietory fluid gives slightly better shift becasue its been optimised for the particular transmission design. There are some 'multipurpose' fluids such as Amsoil ATF which is supposed to meet a wide range of manufacturer's specs. Also I know for a fact that many dealers just bung in plain old Dexron, my local Honda dealer does this because I went there to buy some Hondamatic for a car I was servicing and they had to order it in specially for me - they'd never ever used any before!
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Thanks for the advice everyone !
What is a good "off the shelf" brand for transmission fluid. Most factors I ave seen have Comma - I don't know if this is a quality fluid though. I have only seen small 500ml bottles of the bigger brand-name stuff - where can you buy these in bigger quantities ?
Does anyone know of a web-based "resource" where auto-fluid specifications, engine oils, brake fluids etc. are listed for various makes/models of cars so one can look this stuff up withou thaving to dig deep in service handbook/manuals (which one might not have), and also give some idea of suitable "replacement" or substitute fluids that can be used instead.
Kind of an automotive encyclopaedia/lexicon.
Interesting note about the Honda dealer using ordinary fluid :-) My mother has a new-ish Civic - I was thinking of reminding he rto get the fluid changed at the next service. I may just buy some Dexron III and do it myself.
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The newer Hondas, ie the ones that have the egine turning the normal way (clockwise), use a different fluid again.
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Dexron III supercedes DII and can be used in lieu of DII.
Having experienced 2 expensive re-builds of my Honda Prelude Autobox I would recommend getting an additional oil cooler and most importantly change the ATF annually or at the very least bi-annually, NOT at 5 years or 60K as Honda recommend!! Also, do a full flush through the cooler/heat exchanger lines; Main dealers will only drain your sump which leaves over half of the old oil in your torque convertor to mix into your nice new ATF in the sump! Honda fluid is called Z1 although I believe that a new formulation has just been produced. If you need a re-build choose the firm with care and suspicion!
Lubegard is the additive which is supposed to bring DII up to OEM spec. I have my doubts, but at my next change I want to mix my Z1 ATF with a fully synthetic ATF such as Mobil, but cannot find any stockist in the UK :-(
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Honda fluid for non-CVT transmission is indeed the Hondamatic Z1. A suitable upgrade would be Amsoil synthetic ATF - costs about £12 a litre in the UK.
Honda auto's, being 'clutch pack' transmissions, can benefit from an aftermarket filter fitted in the cooler line - this collects the clutch debris as they wear. There is an internal filter, but it is very difficult to replace (needs casing splitting) and is quite coarse (20um).
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Just read this and wondered if its worth fitting a magnetic drain plug or simply attach a magnet to the transmission sump to catch any magnetic parts? Just an idea :)
Andy
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Most Auto transmissions have magnets and filters inside the sump which should be cleaned and or replaced(in the case of the filter) at the required service interval.
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