This has been on my mind since hearing a comment mayor Ken made on the radio. It was part of a conversation with a black cab driver and Ken mentioned something along the lines (this quote may not be accurate) "diesel particulates that cause cancer". I remember reading an article a few years back about the PM10 particles and a link to cancer. Anyway, my question is - does anyone know of any web reliable websites/research from a reptuable source related to this subject?
This is subject that I have a personal interest in as may years ago (15 to be exact) I worked as a motorcycle dispatch rider in London. When I would get home from work my face would be blackened from what I assumed to be soot from the buses and black cabs. I always wondered that if my face was getting that dirty what must the inside of my lungs be like? If there is a proven link between particulates and cancer then surely all diesels should have particle filters as a legal requirement?
I'm looking for information based on research and real science so please don't post about any links to sites with pseudo science sites or opinions - I'm after the facts!
One other thing - this isn't an anti diesel thread :)
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The Euro IV emissions standards are a lot tighter than previous requirements, and as a result nearly all new diesel cars have particle filters - PSA has a different system apparently, which I know very little about. There's some info at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_particulate_matter
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Thanks for the link - it gave an interesting overview, although being a wikipedia and therefore not 100% reliable it does appear to be based on facts.
I guess the next question is, how many cars on the road today have these filters? How efficient are they? Are they reliable? Are they a service item?
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Do diesel cars cause cancer?
Yes but only to the guy following behind me so its no problem.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Sorry, can't answer your questions directly but old thread here:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=39396
As implied above, not all Euro4 compliant cars seem to have DPFs. The handbook for my (Euro4) CRV covers with and without DPF but mine doesn't have one (maybe they are needed for other markets e.g. US).
The section on DPF in the CRV manual notes that the fuel consumption will increase when self-cleaning is taking place.
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If there is a proven link between particulates and cancer then surely all diesels should have particle filters as a legal requirement? I'm looking for information based on research and real science
see
www.cancer.ie/text/cancerInfo/factors.php
where it is stated that diesl fumes are a known carcinogen, based on info from the " International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) directory of carcinogenic substances".
what should and should not be required legally is another question altogether. (eg. ban cigatettes, barbeques, burnt toast, fireworks, guy-fawkes bonfires, etc. )
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I can remember this old chestnut from a good few years ago, when the tabloids decided to have a pop at diesel vehicles.
What the concern was about, was the possibilty of soot particulates lodging deep in your lungs and causing future health problems. They sort of omitted to mention that petrol vehicles were putting even smaller particles into the atmosphere, which are potentially even more of a problem.
And besides, there are Benzene fumes released when filling up with petrol, which are carcinogenic. I remember reading that some euro countries had special petrol pump nozzle fittings which removed these fumes. I've been waiting since to see something fitted to our pumps. :o(
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Andy T, I agree that there have undoubtledy been some sensationalist or popularity-seeking attacks on diesel vehicles. I don't think there's any benzene in petrol now though.
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The maximum for benzene in petrol is 1% (10,000ppm) but this means quite an exposure if you are in a car park ticket office, or dealing (work-wise) with fuel tanks on the forecourt. BTW, DI petrols produce quite a lot of particulates of the 2.5 size range and below, but they seem to be under the radar because they are invisible, and the mass-weighing methods used tend to implicate the visible, smoky, emisions.
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Thanks for the correction on benzene - I've just looked it up as I was unsure on reflection, and the maximum permitted was reduced from 5% to 1% in 2000.
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Benzene is used I think as an octane booster in unleaded. It always amused me that lead pollution, with its theoretical toxicity, was eliminated at the cost of giving us all cancer.
Real cars much preferred leaded petrol. I still miss it.
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Is there anything that isn't carcinogenic?
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Is there anything that isn't carcinogenic?
i second this question............as something new hits the daily craploids er..........daily
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Is there anything that isn't carcinogenic?
There have been many "scares" over the last 20 years with all sorts of every day products and foodstuffs allegedly being carcinogenic.
Coffee and grilled bacon come to mind.
Be wary of published "research" it may not be unbiased.
A scientific paper was published some years ago which demonstrated that if saccharine (artificial sweetener) was fed to rats in high dosage they had an increased risk of developing certain cancers.
Another research laboratory carried out similar experiments but used sugar rather than saccharine at equivalent dosages.
Result , the rats did not get cancer ..................................they died !!!
Who sponsored the original research.............................The American Sugar Corporation.
Incidentally if I recall correctly the saccharine dose used was equivalent to an adult human drinking 600 bottles of Coca Cola a day!!!
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There isn?t a week goes by when a new danger isn?t highlighted on the media regarding some foodstuff or environmental matter which research has now shown to cause death or danger.
And within a few hours experts ! are produced to confirm this.
And what always amazes me is that by the next news programme they have a victim appearing who tells his story of being a paper seller near traffic or worked on a forecourt and he is now in dire trouble. How do they do find the victims so quickly?.
But in my local paper an oldish man told how he had worked as a bus mechanic in Derby all his working life and how the garage had always been blue with diesel fumes all day.
He said he had never had any bronchial trouble and that all his mates who would now be well into their 70s also had never had any problems..
Being rather oldish myself I wonder how many of us survived before all these health issues became daily news.
My advice Moonshine is forget about 15 years ago and don?t bother about researching something which is only likely to worry you further the more you read.
If you found expert ! advice which said you can only expect to live 16 years after coming home with your face black you wouldn?t feel any better.
Most of this news is simply scaremongering to make news. The thing which counts more than anything else is in your genes and you can?t change them. My wife?s parents lived well into their 90s and they did everything wrong according to the experts. And so did their parents. This was despite one male working down the pit all his life in the early part of the last century and the other in a smoke filled railway foundry for 52 years.
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Do diesel cars cause cancer? Perhaps. So does the sun.
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>>So does the sun.>>
And a wide variety of other possibilities.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Ok, some interesting replies so far with some good arguments. Lots of talk about 'my mate used to breathe fumes all day and lived to 105' etc. That's why I'm trying to find un-biased fact based information. It's purely out of curiousity, nothing more. My mum smoked 20 fags a day and died at 49 from lung cancer. My niece didn't do anything that might cause cancer and died aged 12 from lukemia. Everyone has an example of one extreme or the other.
Given the increase in diesel cars on the road I would like the understand the risks involved (if any at all) so that I can make a personal choice. For example if there is a proven link then I might choose to spend less time on the road or may choose to move house away form main roads so my kids can breath some clean air.
TVM - I find it rather sad that you have a 'I'm allright jack' kind of attitude, but that's your choice and I won't attempt to change it. My dad drives an old diesel that spits out plently of visible smoke and covers a good 20k miles per year, how will you feel when you are driving behind him and those fumes start coming in the vents :)
Don't forget - it's not an anti diesel thread :)
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Everything moves in a repeating cycle, and what has been, will be so again. Radiation was once supposed to be good for your health. Ozone was a good thing once, now definitely bad.
Cigarettes were good for your throat. Tea was originally good, then bad, now apparently good again. Red wine is now very definitely favoured, fortunately, and the recommended daily dose has gone up again. Chocolate ditto.
Pretty soon someone will start claiming that a daily whiff of diesel, or petrol, or benzene helps ward off some illness.
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Radiation might be back in fashion. Low doses may stimulate the immune system and so be beneficial - until the next piece of research I suppose.
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Pretty soon someone will start claiming that a daily whiff of diesel, or petrol, or benzene helps ward off some illness.
A village mechanic in the banana belt of northern Tanzania, with whom I drank moonshine liquor but shared no language, was a firm believer in brake fluid as a medicine. He used to snort it to cure colds.
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