Cheers for the sympathy guys, it's much appreciated. I'm hoping that Neil's reply won't be typical, the British arm have been really very good so far, and have done everything that they could.
Neil - I've deliberately not asked for very much in the first letter - it's only a list of what they *will* do, as a minimum, stuff that I don't think is up for debate. I figure the asking for free services etc is best done verbally. Hopefully this will be the right course of action, lets just say the company concerned have a very good reputation for customer service in this country, or that's what I'm banking on anyway. The letter is almost for the benefit of their French arm and the recovery company, who are being CCd.
Of course now I'm turning into a car hypochondriac ('ooh, did the turbo sound like that before?; was it slightly hesitant before?'), which is just as irritating, but I guess that will pass. Or I'll go mad.
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Gordon
Looks like your problem is with the breakdown cover provider rather than the manufacturer. Presume you had travel insurance which provided this cover. Apart from the poor service does the contract limit their obligation to provide an alternate hire car and onward travel in the way they did?
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Ian, the breakdown cover was provided directly by the manufacturer via a third party company (okay, that's a contradiction, but you know what I mean, I think you have identical cover if I'm correct?). The manufacturer made every effort to rectify the problems as son as they were aware of it, I'm just sorry I didn't contact them sooner.
The breakdown company's contract did indeed limit what they could do, but the manufacturer were quite happy to extent their options when asked. As the cover was thru the manufacturer under their branding, I'm persuing it through them initially. I've actually modified the letter before posting to make it clearer that I'm not having a go at the UK arm, and more specifically praising the UK lady that was dealing with me. You can be sure that the breakdown operator will hear directly from me as well though.
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Gordon
Mine is leased so I get a recovery package (provided IIRC by the AA) at the expense of Inchcape. Must check what the cover is but a colleague whose Renault failed in France two years ago got very good service (equivalent replacement car provided, bring it back when yours is fixed). Risk is getting bigger since mine has 77k on it.
One concern I have is how few [manufacturer] dealers there are in France, plenty of Peugeot/Renault/Citroen. Actually I have never seen a [manufacturer] car dealer, only bikes, although they are listed on the web.
Commiserations and good luck.
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I have never relied on standard manufacturers warranties and recovery policies when driving abroad. They are always limited in scope, control, remedies, and management. You will also find the policy is littered with liability exclusions and limitations.
To fill this gap I use AA 5*
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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As have I in the past TVM. Let's just say that the product bundled with the car was *supposed* to bear a remarkable similarity to your suggestion in terms of provider and scope.
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You certainly fell foul of the wrong sort of garage, Gordon.
I have never known a ***** part not arrive by the next morning, once ordered.
Unfortunately, I have found myself having to kick some French garage staff up the Arras (not I hasten to add, at the ***** dealer - usually at the fast-fit type of chains) because their lazy, over-protected, take-it-or-leave-it attitude means they will often automatically tell you something will take a week to arrive just so they don't have to put themselves out straight away.
When, as I made the mistake of doing in my early days here, you go back after a week, you find they still haven't bothered and it will be another 'huit jours'!
It's sad, but a fact of life over here. Maybe things will change when the approaching asteroid finally strikes the French economy.
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Maybe it's me but I'd be wanting to burn down buildings at this stage...
Steve.
---
Xantia HDi.
Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
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Steve, I do reserve that as an option!! It took a huge effort of will not to just throw the hire car keys over the razorwire fence and drive off when in Grenoble.
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What an odyssey!! Good luck getting it sorted, Gordon.
If their customer service is as good as I've heard about another manufacturer of the same nationality, you might be pleasantly surprised. Fingers crossed for you.
Cheers
DP
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Oh, I forgot to mention. A stone broke the windscreen on the way home as I was passing Oxford as well - it's being fixed on Thursday.
I was not a lucky man this last couple of weeks.
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Gordon
Read the words in the service book last night and essentially they failed on provision ot parts:
Spare Parts - We'll get any spare parts...dispatched . . to get you back on the road as quickly as possible. In the car industry that is normally next day delivery.
You could also have left the car and come home using one of the following:
Vehicle Recovery - you are covered for unaccompanied recovery...if your car is out of action for eight hours or more....
Vehicle collection - expenses to collect car.
I would take the line that I had expended considerable time and effort (effectively ruining the holiday) to ensure the car was fixed and if I had not done this the cost to them would have been significantly greater. Ultimately I would expect them to pay all car hire/taxi costs because they did not meet the "as quickly as possible" and expect a sweetener to cover the ruined holiday.
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Ian, thanks, I read that carefully as well as soon as I was aware there was a problem.
I'm pretty sure the UK arm know there has been a major problem. They offered to pick up all expenses as soon as I spoke to them and without me having to ask. They have also offered to pick up the hotel cost, and I don't expect a problem with getting my phone costs back as well.
The problem really was the amount of gear we had with us. It rendered most of the usual options unattractive in terms of coming home without the car. Sixx of us had gone mountaineering for two weeks - I'd taken four people and probably five people's luggage, as two were flying down. With the boot full to the roof and a full roof box, trains and taxis were not going to happen!
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When a VW goes wrong and the dealer is poor, this site is filled with tales of rubbish VW.
When the broken down car comes from a supposed quality far east manufacturer, the identity is hidden!
I am sorry for GM's troubles, it could happen to any of us. I am going to France soon in the Passat, fingers crossed but it must go wrong soon.
My lawn mower runs very well, it is made by a far eastern firm which also makes motorbikes and cars. I've heard that they are very reliable, but you never know.
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When a VW goes wrong and the dealer is poor, this site is filled with tales of rubbish VW. When the broken down car comes from a supposed quality far east manufacturer, the identity is hidden!
The car's in his profile, so not very well hidden. Is there really a problem saying it's a Honda Accord diesel estate?
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The identity was hidden (okay, not too well, but if someone's that bothered they could just ask me - you could find me from my profile) because I was effectively naming and shaming the service received upon breakdown. The actual fault is just one of those things that happen sometimes, but in my view, the service afterwards was atrocious.
Maybe it didn't need hiding, but I'd prefer not to risk bringing this site into disrepute, it livens up my coffee breaks.
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The reason that I commented on hiding Honda's name, is because I am amused when a Japanese car breaks down.
People always say how reliable they are, I am not so sure. My brother had a Landcruiser which let him down in Bordeaux, it took the Toyota dealer 2 weeks to get the parts and fit them. Then when he got it back, it stopped in the fast lane of the M6, the English dealer said that the parts had been fitted wrongly in France.
So it looks like French Japanese dealers need to buck their ideas up.
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"So it looks like French Japanese dealers need to buck their ideas up."
From my experience, that's an understatement. We'll see how the UK handles it.
Statistically tho, they are reliable. It's just annoying that a 1 hour, next day repair could take so long. Ah well.
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A good mate of mine had no end of problems with his 51 reg Celica 190 including total gearbox failure, multiple catalyst failures, suspension alignment problems, wheels going out of true, engine management gremlins, build niggles and loads of other silly things. Even though he grew to ultimately hate the car, he said he couldn't fault Toyota UK or the dealer's support. They bent over backwards to help him out.
Hopefully Gordon, you'll get the same treatment from Honda.
Cheers
DP
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One of the issues, as mentioned in an earlier post, is that there are very few Honda/Toyota/Subaru/Kia etc dealers in France. Nissan are on the increase with the Renault tie up and you are in a great position if you have a Peugeot/Renault/Citroen, better but not good with VW group/BMW. France is also big so you can be hundreds of miles from a dealer. This means that your car will almost certainly be in a garage with little experience or knowledge of the car if things do go wrong - hence parts on a landcruiser being wrongly fitted!
This certainly contributed to Gordon's problems
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Distance yes, but it was a large, franchised Honda dealer the car went to. At least as big as Francis Honda who I bought the car from.
Saying that, they did appear to have little experience or knowledge of the car, I'll give you that!
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As an example the nearest Honda dealers to Erce where we stayed two weeks ago are 129km - Albi, 196km - Castres, and 205km - Toulouse.
Gordon - Was your car at the Honda dealer in Grenoble (ALPES MOTORS, Concessionnaire Honda, 43 Cours Jean Jaurès, 38130 ECHIROLLES (GRENOBLE) or didn't they tell you about them! See Honda.fr.
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Yep, that was exactly where it was towed. At least, that was where it ended up. I was told by the AA that it was at its third garage when trying to get the address to go and give them a piece of my mind.
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Right, so far not so impressed with the speed of response from the manufacturer. My mates that were coming out to meet us were delayed 8 hours by KLM on the way out. They complained on Monday, and 500? compensation hit their account today. By an hourly rate, that would mean that I was owed about 6,500? by now based on hours directly ruined, should my woes be treated the same way, or 21,000? if you could the whole holiday as being spannered.
Frankly, I'm increasingly tempted to say f o n t s i z e s to them and try and go higher in the food chain.
Watch on the Technical thread, I'm about to enquire how to get my engine bay steam cleaned without invalidating my warranty.
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And as is always the way, I get a reply from them within a few minutes of posting.
No talk of compensation yet, I'll have to raise the issue. But.
Honda have agreed to extend the warranty on all parts that could have been affected by this. They have also arranged for an identical corporate demonstrator Accord Tourer diesel for two weeks while mine goes to Avonbridge (factory apprently) to be cleaned, checked and sorted. They are also promising a written response from the AA, and afull reimbursement for all costs.
So, for the moment, they are giving me everything I demanded. Perhaps not demanding compensation in my first letter was a mistake? Ah well, we shall see.
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>>Perhaps not demanding compensation in my first letter was a mistake?
Perhaps. However since the mistakes were nto their fault and they seem to be doing everythign they can to help, perhasp trying to make money out of it would be a bit much - although I do aprpeciate the trauma and upset. But there ought to be some motivation for these people to sort everything out in this case and in the future, and perhaps moving away from such a culture may help.
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Couldn't agree more about Honda UK. I've been careful to be explicit in my thanks to them in communications so far (and altered the letter copied in my OP to ensure this was obvious before sending it).
However, a combination of Honda France and the AA *ruined* a good part of my main annual holiday. I would feel no compunction at all at demanding compensation from them. They are currently feeling no pain from this situation, unlike Honda UK who are being very good.
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Fair enough. Just do target accurately so the right people get the pain (as you seem to be doing).
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Gordon, as you have wated time and money on phone calls you could invoice them directly for this. I have done this on several occasions now where I have had to chase complaints- and has always worked. Normally keep it to £50 or less, but would need to make clear this is for time and calls, not compensation.
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Well, just the cost of the phonecalls was £46.91, I'm sure I could charge another £3.09 for my time :-(
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Ah, plus VAT. A mistake I regularly make on expense claims. So my calls cost me £55.12.
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Sorry Gordon, didn't realise was that much just for the calls. Would definitely invoice them for that, and would charge for your time as well. Really sympathise with you as sounds like a complete nightmare. Hope you get it solved to your satisfaction quickly.
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I've been following this thread with interest as I have an identical motor, and it's my first Honda. I'm relieved, and impressed, that Honda have acted so swiftly and offered to put things right without any argument. .
In the circumstances I shall change my present Accord for the new model when it emerges in 2008.
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A quick follow up.
My car goes to Honda to get sorted out next Wednesday. A good thing, because as of yesterday the alarm sounds whenever I open a door. Oddly, the siren appears to be in the boot not under the bonnet, and the car will lock, unlock and start as normal without affecting the siren, and the lights/indicators are not flashing. Very odd, but very annoying.
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You couldn't make it up.
I've now got a brand new (800 mile) top spec Accord Tourer loan car sat outside my house. Unfortunately, I've also got my own Accord as well. The demo has been delivered here, not to the dealers, and I can't raise anyone at the dealers and Honda UK are closed "due to unforseen circumstances".
I'm not even sure which car is insured, as there wasn't supposed to be an overlap as my own insurance was set to cover the demo car for the two weeks.
Ah well, c'est la vie.
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Right. Things are resolved.
Honda were unavailable as a fault at their exchange had disconnected all their phones. The local dealer was simply understaffed and busy, but did call me back sounding as confused as I was.
The demo car was delivered here to my place by mistake, and was indeed uninsured, so I have paid to have it put on my policy as an additional car for 48 hours. Hardly a hardship at £12.
Honda UK rang this morning, confused as the car should have gone to the dealers as planned. They have now come and picked up my car.
So, for now, all is sorted, albeit with another couple of hours wasted trying to sort things out. Interesting though - I've got a £23k car, but I've had to show no proof of identity or insurance. Would worry me if it was my car.
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... but I've had to show no proof of identity or insurance.
I never had to show any details when I was loaned several different cars by manufacturers for demo purposes. Honda where the only ones to specifically say it was on my (companies) insurance which I assumed covered me, although I'm not 100% sure. The loans were arranged through our fleet company so I just regarded it as their problem - the insurance cert says any car, so I would have been OK is stopped.
Would worry me if it was my car.
You're not a multi-billion $ corporation though!
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"You're not a multi-billion $ corporation though!"
A very good point.
I wasn't meaning it as a criticism anyway, just an observation. I'm in a much more tolerant mood today than yesterday, when lots of petty annoyances combined to waste a good chunk of my day and make me verge on unreasonable (see the IHAQ thread for an example).
I've been loaned the car by Honda's fleet evaluation people, so I've got all the paperwork that would go with that, so I guess out experiences are very similar.
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