|
I know they don't burn fuel (they just make me burn more fuel!) and they aren't mechanically propelled so, under the present tax regime, they aren't liable but what about changing the law to charge all caravans some sum of money for being on the road? It needn't involve registering the vehicle or have anything to do with DVLA - just a sticker for the window, like the ones you buy to use motorways on the continent. Tourists could pay as well. Raise some money, get cash off the tourists and very low costs of collection.
|
|
Sounds entirely reasonable. They take up valuable space on roads and contribute to wear and tear, let alone the aggravation factor for other road users. Good idea and about time...
|
You'd need a database of all caravans - so they would have a reg. no. to link the tax to.
Easier way would be to tax the towing vehicle. On the form you get from DVLA to re-tax there would be a "tick to pay for a towing vehicle" Tax would apply to all towed trailers >300kg laden, so that wee camping trailers would be exempt. Tax disc could be colour coded, or just stamped/overprinted with a symbol to show it had been paid.
|
|
Don't tax them, they're one of the few things we still make in this country. Also the towing vehicle is using more fuel, hence paying extra tax that way. The damage a caravan does to the road must be minimal compared to other vehicles.
|
|
|
|
Or put a heavy tax on fuel, so that those who use more of it, eg by towing caravans, automatically pay more in proportion to their use.
|
|
I call 340% a heavy tax on fuel!
|
|
|
Or put a heavy tax on fuel, so that those who use more of it, eg by towing caravans, automatically pay more in proportion to their use.>>
But don't you think that that already applies...:-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
But don't you think that that already applies...:-)
Yes - that was my point. Caravan owners already pay extra. And those who spend most time on the roads pay most.
|
|
|
|
|
|
No you wouldn't need a database - that's why what I suggested would be very low cost. If you have a caravan, on the road, it would need a sticker, bought at a site office or the Post Office. No database, no computer, cheap and easy - 1 caravan = 1 sticker.
|
>1 caravan = 1 sticker
Which would quickly become 1 caravan = 1 smashed caravan window , if our travelling "friends" are in the neighbourhood.
|
|
Same goes for a tax disc! It is the risk you take being in this country with anything of value!
|
|
If caravan users are paying a road tax, they're going to expect to be able to park their caravans on the public roads....
|
|
They already do park them. It is called going to the West Country for a Bank Holiday! And I park behind them!
|
This is boring and has been done to death on this forum numerous times before.
Have you ever considered the economic benefits that caravan owners bring? And I'm not a caravan owner.
|
>>Have you ever considered the economic benefits that caravan owners bring? >>
To be perfectly honest it's not something that's been top of the Things To Do list...:-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
|
I agree but far more important is an annual MoT and compulsory driver training, any clown (me included) can hitch up a giant Caravan and drag it along public roads with no QA.
|
PS
I do, however, think that a policy of live and let live should apply to others' favourite activities.
If some people want to go on a caravan touring holiday or stay in a fixed version then so be it. I've stayed in 40ft long fixed caravans on a couple of occasions in my life, when the offspring were younger, and they proved a perfectly serviceable environment for the circumstances in which they were used.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
>>I do, however, think that a policy of live and let live should apply to others' favourite activities.
Amen to that. A principle all but forgotten these days.
|
|
|
Yes inded I have given this some thought, we talk of little else in the Drunken Duck! They don't bring me personally any benefit at all! I don't sell or maintain them, I don't run a garage and I don't own a caravan site or a shop. I can see that the owners get around and spend money but not to a wide cross section of the population. A huge residential home, fixed and plumbed in to a site is not quite what we are talking about, I don't think. The point is about people towing sheds around, like the Top Gear team!
|
>>we talk of little else in the Drunken Duck!>>
Surely there are far more meaningful and deserving topics available to stretch the intelligence...:-)
>>The point is about people towing sheds around>>
It's some people's choice. Obviously not yours or mine, but each to their own as the Foreign Secretary might comment.
We do still live in a free and demoncratic country - just!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
|
Stuartli. You obviously don't know the locals in the Drunken Duck! To get back to the original point I made - I agree that people have a free choice on what they do with their time and money (see my comments on F1 thread re champagne spraying!) I am saying that these vehicles take up a lot of space on the road and there would be no harm in charging them for so doing!
|
|
Personally I would prefer it if all caravan owners were to donate their cavarans to Brainiac. All in the interests of science, I hope you understand.
|
Sounds a bit like demonising another easily identifiable minority to me - I don't caravan, and I have occasionally been 'stuck' behind them, but it hasn't ruined my life.
It's usually the following clot who turns them into a rolling roadblock anyway - they haven't the wit to stay far enough back either to get a decent view to overtake or to let somebody else do so in stages.
I find dogs, cyclists and horses a bigger nuisance than caravans, and certainly a more frequent one - do we tax some of these, and where does all this stop? Only the rich would benefit from the array of regressive taxes that follow this line of argument.
Live and let live.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Don't suggest to the Scotsman another way he can waste our money and tax us, he has enough hair brained ideas of his own. Though I dislike being stuck behind a thougtlessly towed caravan and fields full of them are not a pretty sight (site?!), let's live and let live as someone has already said. Goodness know they've paid enough tax on the extra petrol they burn, on VAT on buying the thing not to mention the VAT on all of those caravanning "essentials" (plastic plates, folding chairs..,).
Besides, we'd have to find something else to moan about and it would go very quiet in the Dog 'n Duck.
JH
|
|
I am not against caravans - even thought about getting one myself. But I think it is entirely fair that caravans should be subject to a smallish VED charge. Trailer tents and any micro caravans of less than 750 kg gross weight could be exempt, while there could be a higher charge for those huge trailer caravans.
|
|
|
|
I noticed driving in France 3 weeks ago, as I overtook dozens of caravans which were all being towed by large white vans, that all the caravans had different registration numbers to the vans towing them. It crossed my mind that they must have a seperate registration system over there, or an awful lot of caravans had been pinched that day!
I would think also that caravan towing will be a dying trend over here as grandfather rights dissappear, and youngsters will not want to take the new test. Mike
|
|
Yes, in most continental countries trailers, caravans etc are registered as separate vehicles - I don't know if this has any financial implication. In the UK (SFAIK) the only people who use separate reg nos for trailers are the military - I guess they have to keep track of the total number of vehicles on inventory and it saves the grief of changing plates to match those of the towing vehicle.
|
|
|
|
On the continent trailers and caravans are separately registered - I don't know if there any financial implications to that. In UK the only people I know of who register trailers as separate vehicles are the military. I guess it helps them keep track of the vehicles they own and saves all the hassle when one trailer has to be pulled by many vehicles during an exercise. No hassle with matching up the plates!
|
To elaborate a little on my earlier comments, I live in a seaside resort where there are literally many, many dozens of caravans, some static but with the majority arriving and leaving throughout the holday season as a result of being towed to or departing from caravan sites throughout the area,
Despite the fact that we only have thee main exit roads, one of which is a fairly narrow four or five mile single lane carriage way and represents the main inlet, caravans have very rarely proved a personal inconvenience on the road.
I think the main problem is frustration i.e the main complainants are those following a towed caravan whose seemingly slow progress is causing motorists to arrive at their intended destination, say, four or five minutes later than anticiapated.
As the saying goes, there are worse things at sea...:-)
But no doubt those frequenting the Drunken Duck will think differently......
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
|
I agree that caravans should have road tax. In Australia anything that is on the road needs 'registration', including trailers. Registration includes what we call an MOT. If it is not road worthy it's not passed as safe and cannot be issued with a tax disc. Obviously the cost is only a small sum, but at least it means the 'outfits' are safe and road worthy
|
I don't agree with road tax on caravans, (or on cars for that matter but I won't start ranting about that right now). But caravans and all other trailers should have an MOT type test.
Also they should have their weight displayed near the number plate, so that cars towing too much are easier to spot by the police, as there seem to be plenty of people who think an escort with a towbar can tow anything.
|
>>an escort with a towbar can tow anything>>
Would have thought that a Ferrari would have more pulling power than an Escort...:-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
Would have thought that a Ferrari would have more pulling power than an Escort...:-)
Yes, but it's useless for towing anything.
I've towed things quite a bit (trailers and caravans) and I find that often it's other vehicles going too slowly that are the problem. If the car in front is doing 45 on an nsl it causes a huge tailback because the obstruction then becomes car+gap+car+trailer. There is also the danger of Kermit the Frog in his not-quite-as-fast-as-he-thinks-mobile behind making a risky overtaking manoevre and not realising that there is another vehicle ahead of the towing vehicle. That happens a lot. It's scary. The worst I've seen is three trying it all at once and all wanting to squeeze into my safety margin, anchors deployed, to avoid the oncoming Foden.
But to keep this on topic I think all trailers should have an MOT and registration and there should be a basic test for drivers.
|
>>Yes, but it's useless for towing anything.>>
Perhaps the quip was a bit too subtle for you...:-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
>>Yes, but it's useless for towing anything.>> Perhaps the quip was a bit too subtle for you...:-)
Yes Stuartli, that must be it.
|
|
|
>>>Yes, but it's useless for towing anything
>>Perhaps the quip was a bit too subtle for you...:-)
mmmm
"Yes, but..." would tend to suggest YES to pulling power BUT its useless for towing anything.
I think that perhaps the lack of sensitivity to subtlety may be your Stuartli.
|
|
|
|
|
>>Would have thought that a Ferrari would have more pulling power than an Escort...
The Ferrari would have only one more gee gee - its emblem!!
--
Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
|
>>The Ferrari would have only one more gee gee - its emblem!!>>
Two if you add the mare you'd hoped to attract..:-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The car thats towing the caravan has already paid tax. However the caravans cause so many tailbacks and instances of apoplexy among the rest of road users that so some sort of tax may be needed. I would rather they taxed cyclists as they cause more aggro than any caravan, the number of times they ride up to pelican crossings-dismount-press the button-stop the traffic and cross the road does my head in.
|
"the only people who use separate reg nos for trailers are the military "
So when GI James goes hurtling past a speed camera how do they figure out which tow vehicle and therefore driver should get the points and pay the fine?...or is the military exempt from speeding fines?.
|
|
If he was GI James that would make him an American! I think that the military would keep records of who was pulling what and when (Health and Safety and all that junk) plus, if you have ever seen a military convoy on an A road ,they can't reach the speed limit, never mind exceed it! As citizens of the UK and holders of a UK driving licence they would liable to legal proceedings just like everyong else, Oh, exept the police!
|
" If he was GI James that would make him an American! "
You see, I was trying to be clever by using a proper Engish name "James" as the American GIs were called "Joe" 8-)
Still sounds like a headache trying to keep track of exactly which vehicle was pulling a particular trailer and who was driving it.
I have it on good authority that the police are very much liable to legal proceedings. A friend of mine is a police inspector who doesn't go anywhere without his Snooper camera detector!!.
|
|
Well, what happened to that policeman in Telford who was 'testing' his police car, at night at 150 mph was it? I think that trial is ongoing. A man arrested for drunk driving recently, complained that he was driven to the police station at over 100 mph - I think a reprimand was issued. A recording system which means that the police can't identify who was driving an official car when on duty, particularly when it is caught speeding! I hope your inspector friend doesn't keep using his snooper when they become illegal! I do agree that the police are liable to legal proceedings but are they subjected to them? That's different!
|
|
|
|
>>... instances of apoplexy among the rest of road users .....
>>...they taxed cyclists as they cause more aggro ....
I don't think that the fact that they irritate you somewhat is really sufficient justification to tax them.
Although in this country who can be sure ?
|
We need less taxes not more. If the suggestion was for a higher tax on 4x4s or cars over a certain bhp you'd all be apoplectic.
Live and let live. They can be a pain on the road and aren't my cup of tea but then so are boat trailers, tractors, lorries and gaggles of cyclists.
|
I dont agree with the need to tax caravans as long as the vehicle pulling it is taxed of course. Travellers spring to mind here!
But what I do get annoyed about is horses being ridden on the roads. They expect you to slow down and give them extra room, because they no doubt could cause a lot of damage if you didnt give them enough room! But are they insured to be ridden on the public road? I think not in most cases, and that is what should be made compulsory.
So forget taxing caravans, start insuring horses or keep them in the fields where they belong!
|
|
I think that horse riders are either insured on a separate policy or they have some sort of 3rd party cover as part of their home insurance. That said, I wouldn't be too confident of getting a claim paid if Dobbin jumped on my car. And all that stuff on the road! If you are unlucky enough to drive thru it and then put your car in the garage = Yuck the next morning! If people can clear up after their dogs, by law, why not horses? Doesn't it come under 'fly tipping'? If it doesn't it should!
|
|
|
>>So forget taxing caravans, start insuring horses.
The same should apply to cyclists and pedestrians. Both can cause accidents, but very few have any insurance cover to 3rd party liability.
--
Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
|
Small children should carry insurance documents at all times, also perambulators, zimmer frames, litter bins, street furniture, etc. They are all annoying and dangerous.
Why not just tax everything, and if anyone seems to be enjoying something, ban it! What's the matter with this country - do people really think the government hasn't got enough money already?
|
|
|
|
|
|
~I would rather they taxed cyclists as they cause more aggro than any caravan, the number of times they ride up to pelican crossings-dismount-press the button-stop the traffic and cross the road does my head in. ~
Why shouldn't they(we).Dismounted a cyclist is a pedestrian pushing a bike.Often it is not safe to look behind,stick an arm out and try to cross a road full of cars who would rather knock you off than slow down for a few seconds.
|
|
|
|
