Hello, this is my first posting to this excellent site. I have a 1997 Citroen ZX 1.4i, 56000 miles.
Is it OK to leave the car unused all week (see usage pattern below) or better, as a Kwik-Fit mechanic suggested after the last oil change, to let it idle for 2 mins every 2 days?
If anyone's feeling patient, I'd appreciate any other maintenance advice, e.g.:
Cam belt: Citroen specify 72000m regardless of annual mileage (or 54000 for all-urban usage); carbycar here says both "every 3 years and 36,000 miles" and "50,000ml". What would people advise given my car's usage pattern & history?
Clutch: was fairly worn when I got the car (1st owner disabled, 2nd preferred automatics). Drives OK, doesn't slip but gear change notchy and occasionaly a touch tricky selecting 1st/2nd in a hurry. Am I putting undue wear on the gearbox/linkages driving it like this, would a new clutch improve the gearchange and would you advise doing this sooner rather than later?
Thanks for your time,
Dave
Typical Usage Pattern
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Mon-Fri: sits in road.
Weekend 1: 2 x 5-mile trips.
Weekend 2: 2 x 50-miles, 2 x 20 miles.
Occasional longer trips. Total annual mileage: 6000.
Service & usage history
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1st owner (to 3y/16500m): Citroen serviced, unknown usage (Plymouth based).
2nd owner (to 5.5y/33000m): incomplete SH, full service at 30000m. Used in London and to Devon.
Me: follow Citroen low-mileage service schedule (1y oil, 2y coolant & brake fluid, 4y plugs, air & fuel filters) plus the odd extra oil change.
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I can't think of anything worse than starting an engine just to let it idle for only 2 minutes. Plenty of condensation created internally, no time to warm engine through fully & running rich plus draining the battery starting it. Lots of cars can be left for a month or more & will still start at the first turn of the key. Unless you are taking a stored car for a run to exercise clutch, brakes etc there is no reason to start it every two days - the idling doesn't do it any good at all.
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As Victorbox rightly points out, there is little to be gained from running an engine for 2 minutes every 2 days, and a lot of problems to be caused!
We've had cars off the road for weeks at a time and have always started first turn of the key. What happens when this mechanic goes on holiday? Does he hire someone to start his car for him? I suspect not.
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Mike Farrow
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Thanks for the replies Victor and Mike. Your advice fits with what I'd thought, that it's best to minimise the number of cold starts not create pointless extra ones. The mechanic's reasoning was that it would circulate oil around the engine and keep everything lubricated. I shan't be following his advice.
Any thoughts on the cam belt & clutch issues?
Thanks again,
Dave
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Ran my Punto for 18 months on similar schedule - lived 7mins walk from train station, so only used cars on weekends. Every second weekend was either 250 mile round trip or 20 mile run.
I made a point of NOT starting the car during the week unless it was going to get long enough a run to warm it up, avoiding wearing down battery and condensation problems etc.
Car always started first turn and showed no ill effects from this treatment.
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I have a very high mileage ZX TD (240k at present on the original engine) and change the oil and filter at 6k, cambelt at 50k, tensioner and water pump at 100k. I think this is fairly standard advice. The original clutch lasted 160k.
I too have had problems with a sticky gearchange. This has always greatly improved if I grease all the joints in the gear linkage, which consists of a series of rods, bellcranks and ball joints. Just get someone to sit in the car and waggle the gearstick about whilst you are underneath and under the bonnet and you'll see all the moving parts. I just push ordinary HMP grease into all the joints that I can see and to date this has always made a noticeable improvement. Cheaper than a clutch!
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Your car will be fine using it the way you describe - no special treatment required.
Your gearshift problem sounds a bit like worn synchromesh to me - does it improve when its hot? A change of oil might be a good place to start - make sure its the correct spec.
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Kwik-Fit mechanic
That's probably a reason why he works there...
[Insert your comments about how this is an unfair generalisation here ||||||||||| (The shredder)]
That's the difference between a spanner jockey and an actual mechanic.
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Although I use Kwik-Fit four times a year for oil changes on two cars, I continue to watch them like a hawk. This time I helped a new guy find both the sump plug and the oil filter, and gave him the special tool to remove the filter and a tip about loosening it a quarter turn to allow its contents to drain without spilling. Result: good job done under supervision, a grateful spanner controller, and a new friend predisposed to do me a favour when I need one. Eternal vigilance.
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Thanks for the replies, everyone. Interesting and informative.
Cam belt:
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It's confusing to see such a wide range of figures for replacement interval: from 36000m/3y (HJ carbycar) to 72000m/any age (Citroen maintenance schedule). I can see why there's commercial pressure on car manufacturers to stretch out service intervals as this can be a selling point, but I don't see a rationale for doing this re cambelt interval - who buys a car based on that? So why the varying figures?
Does age play a big part in cambelt deterioration?
I just rang my local independent Citroen-accredited service agent. They confirmed that Citroen specify 72000m with no age factor, but recommended that given the age of the car (9y) I have the belt replaced sooner rather than later. They quoted £120 plus VAT for parts & labour, that's cheap isn't it?
Gear change / clutch:
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I'll try greasing the linkages when I can get the car on something other than the wet, steep road outside my house. Thanks for the tip, Insect.
Aprilia: I haven't noticed the gearchange being any better or worse when hot. I was charged £4 for gear oil on a main service 2 years ago, I guess that would be a top-up rather than a change. So that's another thing to try.
The nature of the problem is that you have to feel your way into the low gears a little, moving the gear lever in just the right way, otherwise you feel a notchy resistance near the end of the lever's travel. It's generally OK if you're careful and make sure the clutch is all the way down before starting to move the lever, but I've occasionally struggled when flustered at a busy junction. It's a completely different feel from when a car is reluctant to select reverse, where the lever moves normally but the gear fails to engage. Don't know if that helps diagnose the problem.
Kwik-Fit Fitters
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I thought you couldn't get better! I was once assured by one, after my exhaust broke right through and was trailing on the floor & they didn't have the right part, that it would be fine to drive from Hereford to Bristol with the exhaust held up with the piece of bungee strap that had got me the half mile to their garage. I didn't believe them and added some steel wire. When I got to Bristol I found two bungee hooks, each with a short piece of charred nylon attached.
The chap who suggested 2 mins idling said he used to work for Peugeot (I didn't ask what as) so you'd think he ought to know something about PSA engines. Ah well.
Thanks again,
Dave
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Just found the following useful thread from 2003, thought it might be helpful to cross-reference it here.
Low annual mileage cambelt changes:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=16886&...f
Interesting story there of a 9-year-old Peugeot 306, only 14k but cam belt had started to perish. I consider myself warned. I'll get my ZX booked in next week.
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Kwik-Fit, bless 'em. The way I look at it is:
* Because of the fixed price, I get the Mobil 1 at a discount off retail-tub prices of between 35% and 45% (6L one car, 7L the other).
* It's worth a fiver to have them dispose of the old oil and be rid of the potentially messy job.
* It's worth another fiver to have the whole job done by someone else.
So the effective discount is more like 55% to 60%, and for that it's worth keeping an eye on 'em.
And because I'm a regular customer, they do favours for me FOC -- plugging nail holes, replacing valves, etc. In fact, I think I'll switch my other cars from Magnatec to Mobil for the very same reasons.
I never buy tyres there and I doubt that I shall buy another battery there, having found a Bosch Silver 74Ah at GSF for just over £50. Exhaust systems and other work -- nah.
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Gear change update: I greased the linkages (didn't dismantle anything, just smeared grease on all the joints). I'd forgotten that I did this before once. Didn't seem to make much difference.
I found a relevant post on an old thread: "Sticking 306 gearbox/clutch" www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=9721&v...f
"Worn clutch giving insufficiant clearence hence stiff gear selection. These clutches seldom slip giving an indication they are worn.... Dont leave it too long as you may cause expensive gearbox damage!"
I'm afraid this may be the problem in my case - not that I know much about it - because:
1) greasing the linkages didn't help,
2) I believe the clutch may be worn because the biting point is high,
3) A while ago I tried adjusting the clutch to get a lower biting point. This seemed to make the gearchange worse, so I set it back near where it had been.
I'll have another go at describing the feel of the gear change: it's not so much stiff as scrapey. The lever moves left-to-right smoothly enough, it's the fore-and-aft movement that's the problem. Going from 1st to 2nd, if you find just the right amount of leftward force and get the trajectory just right, you might get a smoothish change but more often it's a bit scrapey. I don't know much about how gearboxes work so this is just an analogy, but it feels as though you're pushing something through a tight channel at a slight angle so that it catches on the sides. Don't know if this helps!
Dave
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I Know that it was quite a while ago when the last message was posted on this topic but i have a citroen zx 1.4 with similar problems with the gears, I was wondering if you might be able to tell me what the outcome was that would be great. I think it might be the clutch but im just not sure.
Many thanks.
Jon
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