Where do you find decent but cheap second hand cars any more? Every single one we looked at yesterday (there must have been 20 or 30) was either scratched to bits, rusty or had important trim missing. A passat estate was almost a goer but then I noticed some twonk had clearly stuck something heavy on the roof and had stoved in the sun roof and the rubber surround had rotted and disintegrated. Every other car actually running around on the road of the same age or parked up seemed to be in much better condition. The stuff in car dealers seemed to be total rubbish. Several had missing door mirrors, dents, rust or all over scratches that seemed unusual for 10 year old cars. Would you expect a carina of 10 years old to have a rotting sill, rotten driver's door and orange peel paint? The one half decent car was a rover 400 but the rear seats were too small to fit 3 across comfortably :-/
If the outside was rough then the engine and other bits can't have been cared for or am I wrong in this assumption?
I might be expecting too much for a car costing a grand but there were ones for over £2k that weren't in that much better condition. One place was trying to sell an H reg primera with a front wheel arch which was rotted through and a patch the size of a grapefruit of rust on the rear arch.
Have people stopped looking after their cars these days?
teabelly
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At that price, I would look privately - it seems car dealers can't make much money selling anyting under 2 grand so everything is overpriced.
About a year ago I bought a Citroen ZX TD that had been garaged, waxolyed and serviced on the dot for 1K. I think it helps to look for something that's a bit unloved - I suspect a equivalent 306 in the same condition as mine would have been at least twice the price.
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It helps if you find an ex-fleet car that has found it's way into the hands of a private seller. I got a L reg nissan primera (200k miles) for 160 quid off ebay. For most of it's life, it had been company owned. The seller hadn't driven much in 2 years, so it had been left under a tree, and was almost black (original colour was white). It started first time, and cruised at a steady 70. Got it jetwashed and polished up, and it looked amazing.
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Good advice from brommers - a well cared-for Citroen makes a good buy, as they are almost identical to Pugs. Xantias don't fetch good money. The estates are fairly good-looking.
Ebay won't have bargains per se, but the well cared for ones will stand out. I've bought from Ebay with success, and the lack of hassle is a joy. Bid from home, win, turn up with cash, and then go over it before paying. If the seller has been short on the truth you can walk.
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I don't think we'd touch a french car with a 10 foot pole. The electrics on the xantia are awful (my dad had one) and the spheres need changing all the time. Complicated suspension and anti diy mechanics don't sit well with bangernomics motoring!
Buying privately hasn't been that fruitful either as people really don't tell the full truth about the condition of the car. It is only when you get to see it up close you see what it is actually like and you end up wasting no end of time looking at rubbish.
teabelly
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I don't think we'd touch a french car with a 10 foot pole. The electrics on the xantia are awful (my dad had one) and the spheres need changing all the time. Complicated suspension and anti diy mechanics don't sit well with bangernomics motoring!
Correction, the electrics on YOUR Dad's car were awful, but that isn't necessarily the case on all Xantias. There are a lot around from the early to mid 90s that still look good, with only minor, or no corrosion. The only thing that has failed on our Xantia, that might be down to an electrical fault, is the rev counter and that isn't a crucial item that has to be repaired.
The suspension usually gets slated in this forum but I am only just having to replace the spheres after 12 years, and that is down to the fact that the garage that services the car can't (or won't) re-gass them any more. The total cost of 5 spheres will be about £230 and it is not a long complicated job either. I would imaging replacing suspension items on other cars would be no cheaper over 12 years
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I would agree looking at unfavoured models (even discontinued)and makes, preferably privately owned.
I drive a Fiat Marea Weekend, although you might find the saloon version suitable. This is a stretched version of the Brava/Bravo. They are relatively cheap for their size and will certainly fit 3 adults in the rear with good legroom. The body shells are galvanised, so rust will not be a worry. You should be able to find for about £1000 a fairly good example of average mileage on a R plate estate with a 1.6 petrol, or a T plate for a saloon. Spare parts are easily available on ebay, either new or secondhand. I run a 2.4 diesel and have no problems with reliabilty or electrics. The main thing to make sure you have is the red key, as this is required to reset the engine management system.
Run a check on autotrader and I feel sure you will find a number of examples near where you live. If you want any other more specific info then email me direct as per my details.
My best advice is to keep looking, you will certainly turn up a good car soon.
--
Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
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'Quality bangers' - bit of an oxymoron. What you were looking at were bangers, one stop short of the scrap yard by the sounds of it. Good quality cheapies is a different matter entirely. Being less pedantic, I know what you mean, as we came across similar things when were looking for my sisters first car for the same budget. Some of the private offering were a bit ropey too. Ended up with the Polo that I now own. Paid a bit over the odds for it at an independent car dealer in Whitley Bay, but at least it was spotless.
I can't remember finding cars in £2k price range being as bad as you describe though, although it was about 5-6 years ago now. Stuff which was as bad as what you found, was priced accordingly.
Have a look for cars on EBay, but in your local area, so you can easily view them before you bid.
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I got lucky when looking for a first car for the Missus after she took her UK driving test. The brief was something she could; reasonably accrue her own NCB against; easily handle; not have to worry about breaking down when I am (frequently) abroad; park in town centres and not worry unduly about door dings; seat four people with ease as she often lift shares with colleagues.
This was nearly four years ago, and to meet the brief I purchased a 1995 Peugeot 306 1.8 SR Sedan for £2501 from the estate of a deceased villager in my parent's village. With genuine 14k miles over seven years from new, all the receipts, everything working perfectly as it should, mint interior and way above average exterior, fantastic ride and handling, cheap insurance, 306 timeless styling, and total reliability since we purchased it (now 40k miles), it is the bargain of the century.
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You have to look at each French model on it's merits. I can understand why people avoid Citroens with hydraulics, but a decent 306/ZX isn't likely to give you any more trouble than an equivalent-age Mondeo or Cavalier IMO. It's certainly no more mechanically complex.
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You could probably pick up a very decent Mk1 1.8 Mondeo for well under 1K private. They're worth nothing on trade in, so a private buyer buying a new car from a dealer would probably be selling rather than trading in. I traded a 1995 one in, 2.5 years ago for £400, the book value for trade in was £800, and it was immaculate. If I'd had the time I would have sold it rather than trade.
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My tip is an old shape Seat Toledo TD or 1.8GL. Recently saw a mint 97 Toledo GT with 59000 miles advertised for £750. Other value/good quality sub £1000 includes Mazda 626 and Vauxhall Astra III.
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I sold a fairly mint Citroen Xsara the othr month. Some paint damage, but only superficial scratches and stone chips and no rust at all. Working climate control, 6 cd changer, alloys, 6 air bags, 79k genuine miles and full service history. Went for £1450.
Keep looking, they are out there. Especially the Xsara - it's French and pretty boring looking, so it's really cheap second hand. Was a reliable car tho - had it for 40k miles with no real expense.
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Teabelly, what about a p/x auction? Others will be able to advise further about going down this route.
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An auction is a possibility. There are a few in Stoke and there is one out at Whitchurch that might have the cheaper end of things we're looking at.
teabelly
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Prees auction often has dealer PX sales so you should be able to find something half decent and reasonable there but obviously you have to make a judgement about the vehicle there and then.
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I found a K-reg 1.8 Sierra in absolutely mint condition about three years ago for my best mate's daughter.
It had been owned by an elderly driver, had an oil and filter change every three months and the appropriate services as required, obviously a full service history and the interior and exterior were in exceptional condition.
He paid about £1,500 for it (bit over the odds) but was very happy to do so after some of the Sierras we had seen at around £1k.
His daughter still owns it and, as she lives in the south but her work takes her to a variety of places in the UK, has done quite a high mileage since getting it.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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The quality of sub £1000 cars is amazing, but if you've got champagne taste and beer money you'll come away disappointed.
Dealers forecourts aren't the best place to look, but if you've looked at 30 cars without joy it's more likely to be your expectations than the cars.
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Great site I had forgotten about, thanks :-)
teabelly
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Tea,
Glad Dodo mentioned the SEAT Toledo MK II as I am usually the one banging the drum on these cars.
Basically a MK II Golf £1,000 will get you an immaculate 1997 1.9 diesel or 2.0 sport (FAST). Look for an SXE which is the top of the line model.
Loads on Autotrader.
Everybody hates them, small hatches never popular in this country, zero image, totally anonymous, in my opinion a good thing in these days of car scratchers, my current top bangernomic model.
As a general point £1,000 will get you a fabulous car these days as long as you go for the Cinderella models like this one. A 'real' MKII Golf at this price would be a piece of rubbish. Go figure.
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Slightly off-topic, but referring to the quality of £2000 cars as mentioned earlier, my other half recently bought an R reg Tigra 1.6i(NOT everyone's cup of tea, I know, but she likes it!) with 62K miles and VGC for 2 grand. Not bad at all I think.
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Youngest son bought 1993 1.1 Fiesta lowest spec for £950. 50k miles on clock.
3 years and 35k miles more, disks, clutch , exhaust and tyres replaced and still going strong...Bit of rear arch rust neeeds resorting every year and 600miles to pint of oil.. but same battery and it keeps on going and going...40 miles round trip to work every day...
Cheap or what?
Advantage of Ford. Cheap parts, reliable, simple easy to repair.
madf
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Struggling to find cheap Toledo's. I want a sub 2k solid/safe diesel.
I have a question would you pay £1500 for a 1994 BMW 525TDS white with loads of history MOT March 2007 Tax Dec 2006 good nick it seems, its a manual so I am hoping to get about 50mpg.
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Sorry 125k miles on it. The seem good value I have an E39 and want to trade down.
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To be honest I would be very surprised if you got anywhere near 50MPG from it - even the latest and greatest 6cyl diesels struggle to get that
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1996 Toledo diesel on Autotrader now for £750. Doesn't say mileage.
Diesels are rarer than petrols more expensive and may have been taxis. Unlikely to recover the value of the diesel premium over the reaming life of the car IMHO.
I would go for the 2.0 sport myself. 1997 on Autotrader at 1,299 but I bet he'd take half an Archer. Slush box too.
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on Autotrader at 1,299 but I bet he'd take half an Archer.
Minty.
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What about a Vento? A booted Golf and just as unpopular as all booted golfs - remember the Jetta? (Now that's cheap motoring)
I'd keep an eye on eBay if you're after something seriously cheap.
£111 for a '95 Toledo diesel (bit of a shed, but how cheap is that - included half a tank of diesel too.) 4629307864
£450 for a '97 Toledo with 12 months MOT 4628425998
What about a Fiat Bravo/a. Cheap as chips - but not as cheap as the Toledo and without the VAG reliability.
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Ventos and passats are definitely on the list. Only seen one passat on the trawling around dealers so far. I had forgotten about Seat. I think I'll add them on :-)
teabelly
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>>£450 for a '97 Toledo with 12 months MOT 4628425998
'No smoking' signs on the dashboard so this could have been a taxi?
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Mk2 Jetta - very solid. I once managed to fill up the boot - it's huge.
Was rear-ended at about 15 mph by a luvvie actor - boot floor crumpled, his ins co. paid up, and I carried on driving it, as the lid/lock was still fine.
Still a few 16v around - quick.
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I would seriously think about looking at this:
snipurl.com/pnj0
I had a 1.8 Xsara VTR for nearly three years, was a good car, they are mechanically solid and nice to drive. Not a rocket, but not slow and very comfy. If you could put up with the colour, this looks pretty good.
Gord
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Jetta on AT 1.6TX, 101k, £495 FVSH
tinyurl.com/m57lr
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Where are you, Teabelly (where in the country, that is)? Give us a postcode (or the postcode of your nearest Tescos/whatever if that helps).
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We're in stoke on trent. Anything we did see that would fit 3 kids in the back (sister in law to be and her brood are going to be using the car during the summer too so it has to be as decent as possible) was badly rusty or generally tatty or shouted neglect. The only possibles that may have been rejected wrongly were the passat with the caved in sunroof and rotted rubber surround and the white cars as neither of us like white. As the passat was on at 850 it was a lot for a car that could need several hundred quid to sort the sunroof and deal with the rot that would be under there.
We're fussy at the moment but I suspect that will wear off after another week of looking :-)
teabelly
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You have to put 3 elements in place.
1).Buy private, because private buyers will still service and clean LOVINGLY an old car. It's their car. Their special car. The trade need a profit, and these types of cars are often suspect when they are at auction. They are old.
2). The car. You need a good staple that is inherently relaible, uses cheap spares, but is not trendy, and depreciates. Primera Mondeo, Micra, Seats,etc plus some French but reliability here can be iffy.
3). The buyer. He or she must be a nice normal person. They must run an old car from choice not need, or it will be neglected and more importantly resented. If they have had the car for 4-5 years so much the better.
18 months ago my brother bought a 1997 Ford Mondeo 1.8 verona. 1 owner from new. Nice 45+ year old gent. All Ford serviced, and tyres battery and exhaust from Fords. Air con did not work, but he was told this. Every MOT, every receipt. 46K in a 7 year old car. cost £1,600 (which was a toppy price at the time). He then had a £300 cam belt plus all the bits fitted at Fords. 20k later car is a dream. Probably 4 years more in it.
As he left with the car, the gent said 'you will look after it won't you?'
I know it is textbook stuff but it really is true. It makes one wonder why spend more than £2-3k on anything if style and looks don't matter.
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You have to put 3 elements in place. 1).Buy private, because private buyers will still service and clean LOVINGLY an old car. It's their car. Their special car. The trade need a profit, and these types of cars are often suspect when they are at auction. They are old.
the public look after old cars? not in yorkshire they dont (ok a minority might the vicars wife the old lady at no,22 who needs it for her grandchildren.
The days of getting a bargain from a private source these days is non existant,it used to be my bread and butter for 10 years, all you will find now is rubbish that the trade dont want and that the advert in the local shop has failed to pull a punter with.
If you want the ultimate bargain? get to know the staff at a decent garage. Ones that take in p/x cars from decent people who dont want the hassle of timewasting tyre kicking short"s wearing teachers who want a bargain for their daughter for uni ideally a polo but something like a punto may just well do.
If you cant get through that hurdle go to a proper car auction that has proper p/x stock direct, (not tosh that dave has banged in because john the auctioneer is his half brother ),a proper multi franchise dealer will not allow traders to buy these peaches among the stones and sends all the cars to the auction.
They tot up what each one is worth and if the car doesnt make the reserve at the end of the night, they might tot up what the rest of their p/x stock has done and let you have it at your bid price plus another £50.
The only rule at auction is that you must know what you are doing and as already said you must be able to accept supermarket knocks and the fact that the interior light stopped working in 1998 and was never fixed because it wasnt thought about again.
sorry for the long post but...................if you have looked at 30 plus cars and failed to find something suitable, then either your standards are too high or you live in the wrong post code for older cars
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What I suggest is that if you are looking for a three year old mondeo, go to a MB dealer.
If looking for a Vauxhall, go to Ford/MB/audi/Etc dealer.
however, if you are looking for a prestige car, then you will still have to pay a fair whack.
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>teabelly
Our local car dealer specialises in the car typ you want. No website.. been there for years..Some nice looking cheapies.. nothing over £4k and no visible carp..
Used Car Dealers Congleton - UK Business Directory Listings ...Used Car Dealer Name: Bells Of Biddulph Ltd Telephone: 01782 518118 Address: Walley St, Biddulph, Stoke-on-Trent, ST8 6EA ...
madf
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They have a website now :-) I have been checking them out now and again. I'll have another look later and see if there is anything fresh. www.bellsofbiddulph.co.uk
teabelly
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Perfect car for you teabelly from Bellsofbiddulph. MERCEDES-BENZ 230 E Auto , 4 Doors, Automatic, Saloon, Petrol, 1990 H Reg , 114,352 miles, Metallic Blue, MOT-08-2006, 3 Owners. Clean car, Good runner, Part exchange to clear, Taxed, Child locks, Electric mirrors, Electric windows, Electric sunroof, Metallic paintwork, Power assisted steering, Wood/wood effect trim. For more information please call Andy on 07968 550240 or Lyndon on 07969 999999 £850
Otherwise, likely looking eBay items within 10 miles of Stoke: 98 Vectra SRi 4633643688 BIN for £1,500 fsh, lovingly cared for; L-reg escort diesel estate 4633754471 for £150 needing a new windscreen and a MOT probably rather scruffy for you; 1991 Toyota Townace mpv 4633963537 which made £1200 last time it was listed - plenty of room for the various children; 1999 Xantia for £1550 BIN; nice tidy 1995 Astra diesel 4634912567 which I don't suppose he'll want much for; 1999 Xantia 4633126264 for £1500; 1996 V6 Vectra in GOLD with all toys for £900 but he'll take less 4634374465 with good MOT;
Looking just a bit further afield in Sale there's a very nice looking R-reg 98 Accord 4634843695 on BIN for 1500 that probably will make less; A slightly leggy 96 Accord in Nottingham 4634772925 'two lady owners' no bids on it yet at £600; a Vento 4633429239 being sold by a character by the name of Daley... with anti-hijack feature for about £750.
I'd go and demand that low mileage Merc from your local dealer if I were you. Duplex timing chaing that 'never' needs changing, Just check for rust, clocking (it's very low mileage), the autobox works in sport, that the ATF is red & doesn't smell burnt. TBH, buying from a dealer you should be able to be fairly certain that it will not have anything wrong with it; even at that price.
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& how could I forget the white 98 diesel mondeo £695 with 12 months MOT and a whole list of recent work (tyres, exhaust, glow plugs etc.) 4633951621 from an illiterate part-time trader.
Another one, 1997 petrol in green this time 4633670119 that's not going to make as much as he wants because it says 'this car has been sold' half way down the page but he changes his mind at the bottom. If his reserve is sensible, that stands a chance of being a good bargain.
Ah, i love spending other people's money on cars.
Do not think of 4634590173, 4633937829 or 4634371212.
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The merc is a maybe. It is quite old though. I don't know what spares prices are like. The recently deceased cavalier this new motor will be partly replacing was on an H. A few years newer and it would be a definite. This banger has to last a good 3 or 4 years if only to avoid the pain of finding a replacement! The gold vectra is another possibility and I am pretty sure we've driven right passed it at some point as it looks very familiar!
Budget is only £1000 and Mr Particular indoors has stipulated no fords and nothing french :-) thus making this even more of a challenge.....
teabelly
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ima fter a toledo sport myself now after some of you lot on here reccomended it!. So if it costs me a fortune in repairs and maintainance, and breaks down all the time, im coming after you!
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You *might* be surprised how cheap many of the Merc spares are from GSF/eurocarparts. Obviously there are really expensive horrid things to go wrong, like the autobox or rot. You should find second hand spares fairly easy to come by though. You're replacing (and I'm sure somebody will disagree with me here, but...) a 15 year old car with a 12 year build spec with a 15 year old car with a 18 year life expectancy.
Those Vectras have a bit of a poor reputation, read the car by car breakdown (HJ says 'I cannot recommend this car'). Mr Particular needs his head examining, the Mondeo is the solution to your needs, failing that something French.
£1000 will buy you a 7-year old car with 100k and change for some servicing. Don't settle for less.
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We went up to them this morning and bought the nissan primera they had. They had dropped the price to £500 and it had nearly a year's MOT so what a result! Original toolkit and jack were in the boot, all seats were in good nick. Car seems good and clean inside and out. Engine bay needs a good clean and tidy to get the dust off. Only obvious flaw with the car is the dents in the bonnet where some muppet has dropped something on it. It goes and stops ok and there isn't a nasty rattle when starting it up so the chain must be in decent shape too.
Hopefully I won't be starting a thread with 'bought a nail from a dealer...' :-)
teabelly
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I suspect my Omega would fetch about £1,000 and would be an utter diamond for that much. What that suggests is that you just have to keep looking until the right person is selling the right car.
V
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