I'm on the market to buy a small LPG/bi-fuel car, mainly to be used to drive in London and also to avoid giving Ken any more of my hard earned cash, when he extends his Congestion Charge area, next year.
The other day I popped into my local Vauxall dealer, because I know they make bi-fuel vehicles, only to be met by blank faces. No second hand cars available, no brochures, no info, basically they'd never heard of them! I found a few companies on the internet that specialize in LPG cars, but all their stock seems rather overpriced for what it is.
I know that Volvo make such cars, but they are too large and too pricey for my needs. So, does anybody else make them, or shall I have to buy one and have it converted? I was on the Continent recently and over there many manifacturers sell bi-fuel cars, but not in the UK, it does seem.
And does converting a new car to run on LPG invalidate its warranty?
I'm new on this forum, so all advice on the matter would greately be appreciated.
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The other day on Ebay there was a 2-litre Ford Granada, described as immaculate, converted to take LPG as well as petrol and probably going cheapish... might be a good place to look. May be other LPG cars if a sluggish large Ford isn't yr cup of tea. Series 1 Priuses are cheap too although nasty (people were saying the other day in another thread).
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I wouldn't bother with a Vauxhall. A mate of mine bought a 2000 Vectra 2.0 CDX Dual Fuel and it's been nothing but trouble. It's been in and out of the main dealers, costing well over a grand so far, and it still isn't working. He's been told that the whole LPG system is shot.
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Dont bother with Duel Fuel cars at all. Waste of time and money.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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My old boss had one (Commuted to Camberley from Andover everyday) and wished he'd just bought a diesel.
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Personally I am not convinced that the savings from LPG is worth the extra cost of conversion. Also I am not happy about the long term life of a converted engine. IIRC Big Bad Dave had a conversion done in Poland, so he might be able to answer a few queries.
For insurance you might find a problem, depending on their preference of fuels and who converted it. Also the Channel Tunnel will not allow LPG vehicles to use it.
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Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
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Iv'e heard that duel fuel vaxhalls are cheaper at auction than the normal petrol version. Possibly because of the above comments.
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I understand that we do not like LPG cars in the UK,but how do people get on with them in France,Italy and Holland where they are very popular.Is it just that we do not like them in the same way that some people dont like Renaults or Audis etc?IE no real good reason.
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I'm on the market to buy a small LPG/bi-fuel car, mainly to be used to drive in London and also to avoid giving Ken any more of my hard earned cash, when he extends his Congestion Charge area, next year.
Don't bother.
The rules are under review, and the exemptions will probably be cancelled. It's only certain LPGs that are currently exempt.
Doesn't make sense (like many of Ken's policies) for these cars and Prius's to be exempt. It is after all a congestion charge, not a polution/emission charge.
And of course LPG tax is already on the increase, just after the government has persuaded people to use it with grants etc.
More joined-up thinking from your car-friendly socialists!
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I think you need to open your eyes fellas!
I am now on my 2nd lpg converted car. First one a 1.8 avensis which I did 80000miles on lpg no problems at all (saved £5000 on fuel costs which includes payback of lpg installation).
My current car is a Lexus gs300 converted to lpg in which I have done 10000miles with zero issues. It costs me £35 to fill it = 110 litres. Equivalent cost in petrol nearly £90? I do approx 3mpg less on gas than petrol and at the rate I use LPG it will pay for my conversion in less than 1 year. Each year I run it I will then save money unless price of lpg goes up from 33p per litre (my current) to equivalent petrol prices.
Perhaps I should keep it quiet though and let you lot keep saying its rubbish.....may keep my costs down....but if everybody got one prices could go the diesel way.
Again if you based your knowledge on fact (and not one off events ie one vectra has broke down...how many vectras break down...is it correct to say the whole world of lpg is poor?)
rugbyleague
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There are lots of LPG cars here in Australia. Our work fleet is changing over to dedicated LPG Ford Falcons. I drive them often and there are no problems. The cars drive well. They use a bit more fuel but at the price that doesn't matter. The power is down a bit also but not to any significant extent. Mind you they have a 4lt 6 so power isn't a problem. The main things against LPG are the smaller number of service stations offering it however that is changing as more people are buying it. The other thing is the space the tank takes up. Sometimes you end up with a spare tyre taking up most of the boot. Station wagons are better because you can put the spare upright at one side and still have plenty usable space.
I like lpg sufficiently to have wanted to buy one when I last replaced my car however they wanted $5000 extra for them on a 2 year old ex fleet and I gave it a miss. Got a petrol one instead and will keep the $5000 to pay for petrol. That shows how popular they are here.
If, as said above, Vauxhalls with lpg are going cheaper than petrol ones I would get one like a shot.
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" I think you need to open your eyes fellas!
I am now on my 2nd lpg converted car. First one a 1.8 avensis which I did 80000miles on lpg no problems at all (saved £5000 on fuel costs which includes payback of lpg installation).
My current car is a Lexus gs300 converted to lpg in which I have done 10000miles with zero issues. It costs me £35 to fill it = 110 litres. Equivalent cost in petrol nearly £90? I do approx 3mpg less on gas than petrol and at the rate I use LPG it will pay for my conversion in less than 1 year. Each year I run it I will then save money unless price of lpg goes up from 33p per litre (my current) to equivalent petrol prices.
Perhaps I should keep it quiet though and let you lot keep saying its rubbish.....may keep my costs down....but if everybody got one prices could go the diesel way.
Again if you based your knowledge on fact (and not one off events ie one vectra has broke down...how many vectras break down...is it correct to say the whole world of lpg is poor?)
rugbyleague"
Good for you fella. I'm not saying all lpg cars are rubbish - was just sharing views on Vauxhall dual fuel cars. Even the main dealer admitted they were rubbish. Also, I believe Vauxhall have canned their dual fuel range.
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Thats what i was thinking,if the conversion is done well then there should not be any problems,as i said its very popular in Europe.Is it the case maybe that the installers in the UK are not skilled enough to install/fault find well enough?
I would think that a well installed conversion on something like a Toyota or Nissan must be the route to very cheap motoring and certainly without some of the expensive/dubious reliability problems associated with some common rail diesels.
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If you want LPG then you have to get a factory fitted job. If you have a car converted you *will* get agro. If it hasnt happened yet its just about to.
Why anyone in the UK want LPG is beyond me. There is no LPG pump within 15 miles of where I live.
LPG in the UK is dead technology.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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I service a taxi run by brothers who live over the road.They change cars frequently(currently Vauxhall Omega) and every one they get runs on LPG,no problems so far,nearest supplier half a mile away,so there are a couple of people who want it,for economy I would think.Dead technology?HMG seem to be trying to kill it off.
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I think the idea of dead technology is wrong,its just that in the UK we have our small minded Luddite views on anything thats different.
I see LPG in most of the Shell filling stations that i go in,and one advantage must be that you never see anyone having to wait to use the LPG pump.
I started using unleaded in 1988 and you never had to wait then,and does anyone remember all the silly stories about using unleaded then?Best one i rememember was 'dont use that unleaded petrol,its really dangerous,its very easy to set on fire'.
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A large haulage company based in my home town runs a fleet of LPG/Diesel dual fuel Scanias and they save about £200 per week over the diesel only trucks.
You never seem to see LPG/Diesel cars ....
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A mate of mine has had LPG converted cars for 10 years, Volvo estates and several Discovery V8's, and AFAIK he's not had any problems. Limited availability of LPG is an issue, but my mate keeps a list in the car of all the LPG filling stations in the UK (available on a website). If he gets stuck he just has to fill up with petrol for a change!
Just looked on ebay, there are currently 109 LPG equipped cars for sale and they're not all big 4x4's. If you buy 2nd hand you dont have the big cost of the installation to recoup before you start saving money.
Problem is that tax on LPG went up 36% in the budget, as HJ reported, is it going to keep going up until its no longer viable?
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"If you want LPG then you have to get a factory fitted job. If you have a car converted you *will* get agro. If it hasnt happened yet its just about to.
Why anyone in the UK want LPG is beyond me. There is no LPG pump within 15 miles of where I live.
LPG in the UK is dead technology."
What rubbish, I ran on LPG for about 4 years - over 150,000 miles in an Omega, converted aftermarket, no trouble at all. I could drive 700 miles on 26 pounds of LPG (113 litres).
In town the mpg would be nearly double and I would get on average 380miles out of 113litres. But the same would be the case on petrol..... motorway 36mpg, town 21mpg. The big difference was that petrol was more than 3 times the price.
Let's work it out shall we
150,000 miles @ 21 mpg = 7142 gallons = £24,353 ( at 75p/litre)
150,000 miles @ 18 mpg = 8333 gall = £8713 ( at 23p litre)
I saved £15,640 over the time I used LPG, The conversion cost me £1,250 Net gain = £14,390
So would you be willing to travel 15 miles once a week to fill up your LPG so that by the end of the year you will save £4k - £5,000? I was willing and I combined the journey to the LPG filling station with my weekly visit to my parents house, it all worked out nicely.
Having said that, a lot depends on the person converting your car (I used the best in the area) there is no point skimping on an LPG conversion. Also you have to find who the best is (not an easy thing to do unless you have contacts, I was in the taxi trade so it was easy.
Also there is no point having LPG unless you have medium to high fuel costs each year, if you have an economic mini car and just go to the supermarket or a short drive to work and back, LPG is not going to be much use to you.
Also there is the Budget recent increase in LPG. Before any conversion you have to be aware of all the current prices to see how long it will take to get your money back. Doing it to save on the congestion charge doesn't strike me as worthwhile but you could save 5 pounds a day 25 - 30 pounds a week - so maybe? Then there are the conditions of exemption, I'd have thought only powershift granted vehicles would be exempt from congestion charges ???
The powershift grant scheme (that's what it was called I think) was in essence a waste of money. You could get a good conversion done for £1000 - £1200 but if you wanted the £5 road tax discount you had to have a powershift grant approved converted car, which cost £2,500 - £3,000 to convert and you would get about £1,000 discounted off that price, there was also other conditions like the car had to be less than one year old, etc etc. The whole thing was just a scam from start to finish.
Vauxhall does sell cars from new as dual fuel, but the "factory fitted" jargon is a myth, they are converted (or used to be) by approved powershift converters not by the vauxhall factory. And just as in any business you get cowboys, being "approved for powershift" does not mean the guy is any good at converting LPG cars, it's very easy to set yourself up as long as you have enough money to buy your way through the courses and testing fees, You have to submit a vehicle for inspection. The fee for the inspection is over £1,000 (per vehicle) You have to do this for each and every vehicle model you intend to offer your services for under the powershift scheme (omega, astra, avensis etc etc etc) so it can be very costly indeed to set yourself up as "approved" but if you have the money it can be done (or could be - not sure if the scheme is still running)???
LPG is most certainly **not** dead in the UK for those people who have high fuel costs.
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