|
Hello, leading high street car mag describes New Passat as the best all round medium sized family car. What do fello back roomers think. My mate who works for a very large London based VW outfit regards VW products as expensive and overrated, hehimself drives a Toyota. The problem with motoring hacks is that they ver rarely keep car for more than 12 months, have no idea about real life running costs, and have zero knowledge on design and engineering issues (robustness and quality). Any replies appreciated.
|
|
I have not driven one myself though I have looked closely at them, by reputation that are supposed to be much better to drive than the old Passat though reliability is still a question however the diesel engines are not up with the best in terms of refinement IMHO.
|
|
|
>>The problem with motoring hacks is that they ver rarely keep car for more than 12 months, have no idea about real life running costs, and have zero knowledge on design and engineering issues (robustness and quality)>>
Utter piffle...:-)
By the way the Passat is a stunning looker, built like the proverbial brick s... house and will probably still be going long after you and I have departed the planet.
Incidentally, the Skoda Octavia will probably serve your requirements just as satisfactorily.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
|
Quite agree Stuart. Had a 1.9 TDi for a week on loan. Exc car. Grows on you more every day. Don't want to give it back now...
|
|
|
>>The problem with motoring hacks is that they ver rarely keep car for more than 12 months, have no idea about real life running costs, and have zero knowledge on design and engineering issues (robustness and quality)>> Utter piffle...:-)
I suspect few motoring journalists keep cars for the long term or own cars older than 1-2 years old. They also, as a consequence of their job, rarely tend to drive the same car day in, day out, for any length of time. I imagine they don't often pay for servicing or repairs out of their own pocket. Obviously this is a generalisation, and there may be one or two exceptions, but I think it would be accurate for the majority. A lot of reports are also directed at the company car buyer, with their emphasis on tax payable, emissions banding etc.
I have always been sceptical about journalists ever since I was interviewed by a journalist from Autocar. He came up from London to interview me about automotive electronics (they were running a feature and wanted to interview people working in that field). He was a very pleasant young chap and when he arrived we went out to lunch and had a chat. It turned out he was a music graduate and knew almost nothing about cars except that he was interested in them...I noticed articles written later by him talking sagely about 'build quality', power output, gear ratios etc etc.
|
>>I suspect few motoring journalists keep cars for the long term or own cars older than 1-2 years old.>>
I was the motoring correspondent for a major evening newspaper for 15 years.
True I got to drive all the very latest cars in the UK and abroad, whilst road test cars were supplied for a period of a week each by manufacturers' Press relations departments.
But I still bought, ran and maintained my own (all used) cars during that period and all were kept for a minimum of three years...:-)
Just because one "journalist" you met was not what he seemed doesn't extend the right to tar all genuine journalists with the same brush.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
>>I suspect few motoring journalists keep cars for the long term or own cars older than 1-2 years old.>> I was the motoring correspondent for a major evening newspaper for 15 years.
Is it true that many newspaper motoring correspondants never drive the cars at all? From the reports in our local paper, it's pretty clear that the reports are written from reading the brochure.
|
|
|
|
|
As far as I can see the list price of the new Passat is comparable to, if not cheaper than the competition. The fact that you can get major discounts off list price and plummeting residuals on some other brands is hardly VW's fault. On our car list the monthly rates are lower than for the Vectra/Mondeo alternatives. Pricewise, what is your mate comparing it to? From what I've read and heard many of the recent problems with VW are down to poor dealer service rather than the product per se. The new Passat looks great from some angles and awful from others, but having been driven in a 2.0tdi and briefly driven a 2.0tfsi(a stunning engine), I would guess that in this regard the car mag is spot on. IMO the Octavia would be a close second but the diesel install isn't quite as refined.
Clearly nobody buys a car simply on the say-so of a motoring journalist but it seems a bit daft for someone who happens to work for a car showroom, who is unlikely to have driven every car in this sector, to completely write off the breadth of comparative knowledge and experience that has been gleaned from testing cars week in and week out.
|
Clearly nobody buys a car simply on the say-so of a motoring journalist but it seems a bit daft for someone who happens to work for a car showroom, who is unlikely to have driven every car in this sector, to completely write off the breadth of comparative knowledge and experience that has been gleaned from testing cars week in and week out.
Breadth of knowledge does not necessarily mean depth.
|
If I'd have listened to motoring journalists (HJ included!) I'd never have got my car.
As it happens, I honestly don't think I'll change it until it stops working. And even then, I'd be seriously tempted to get an identical model in the exact same colour!
That's dedication for you.
The new Jetta looks very very nice too. Have you considered one of them?
|
Err the new Jetta is just an extended Golf but appears to cost more than the Passat.
Or was the advert wrong?
--
I wasna fu but just had plenty.
|
You're right I guess. It's just that the new Passat's boot doesn't seem big enough for the profile of the car.
Makes it look smaller than it's class in my opinion.
|
The Passat boot is enormous! One reason I bought a Passat estate (previous model) rather than the better looking saloon, is that I could not easily stretch to the back of the boot without the easier access of a tailgate.
--
I wasna fu but just had plenty.
|
I'm on about the new Passat GWS.
I'm sure it's deceptively cavernous but the new one's exterior profile doesn't look nice.
|
>>but the new one's exterior profile doesn't look nice.>>
Have you seen one in silver yet?
One day, if and when I can afford it, the new Jetta (I had two of the originals, a 1989 1.3 four speed and big bumper 1990 1.6TX) will replace my present six-year-old Bora 1.6 SE.
That's if it's worth it. The Bora still looks brand new,, has a very classy interior and is built, in common with my comment on the new Passat above, like the proverbial brick s... house...:-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
They look nice Stuart - but they could look a lot nicer with a slightly longer boot.
If they brought a 4 Motion out I'd possibly consider one....if I ever came into some money!
;-)
|
|
|
|
I totally agree, but likewise depth doesn't necessarily mean breadth, and the ability to make comparisons and to place the abilities of a car relative to it's competition is important to a prospective purchaser. As I said, nobody would buy a car simply on the advice of a journo, but they get to drive a wider range of cars than your average punter and in providing a basic overview of a sector and in flagging up the pros and cons, their opinion is to some extent valid.
Whenever someone on a car forum reports passes general comments on a car, having actually driven it, then their opinion, favourable or otherwise, is of much more value to me than those who opine without having even sat in the car. I do not think less of an opinion because it comes from an architect or sales rep rather than someone who works in the industry.
Ideally every motoring journo would be fully cognisant with every engineering aspect of the car but life isn?t perfect and you deal with what you get.
|
|
|
|
|
I'm a massive fan of VaG cars generally, and have had 2 Passats as company cars and currently own an A4 Avant. I think the new Passat looks great and is VFM compared to its competitors, taking into account the better residuals etc.
However the things that put me off the New Passat as opposed to the old model are the transverse engine, and the fact that the new car is based upon the Golf floorpan rather than the old Audi A6 floorpan.
I think on the old Passat and Audi's, having a longitudinally mounted engine gave a 'near rear wheel drive' feeling in a front wheel drive car which is a bonus compared to other FWD competitiors. Audi are sticking with this, but its a shame they moved away on the new Passat.
Also, I know the VaG diesels are less refined than some other competitors, but to be honest this is only largely EXTERNAL engine noise. The VaG diesel is still as/more fuel-efficient than just about anything else. The other day I drove a new Merc 220CDi, this was whisper quiet externally, but was a lot more 'diesely' inside than either my A4 or the Passat.
|
.....He was a very pleasant young chap and when he arrived we went out to lunch and had a chat. It turned out he was a music graduate and knew almost nothing about cars except that he was interested in them...
Sounds very much like James May, Aprilia.
Did he have floppy hair and wear cords?
|
".....very pleasant ... chap .... music graduate .... knows little about cars except that he is interested in them..."
With just a few edits, that's ME - will Top Gear give me a job, do you think?
|
It depends what kind of presenter you´d like to be - the tall annoying one, the short annoying one, or the floppy-haired annoying one.
Only kidding. Love the prgramme.
|
|
|
|
|
Just remembered why I'm glad it's going back today - the TC tells great big MPG porkies...
|
Just because one "journalist" you met was not what he seemed doesn't extend the right to tar all genuine journalists with the same brush. - - - - - - - - - - -
Well I'm not. I just see so many technical inaccuracies in articles that I wonder at the background of the author. I had to laugh at the comment in Top Gear magazine's summary of Vauxhall's cars. The comments being that the company "had made some good cars but had gone downhill since the GM takeover". That would be since 1925 then?
|
The key ability for any journalist is to learn a little very quickly.
When journalists write about a complex area where I have a lot of expertise, they rarely get it more than 50% correct but 90%+ of readers won't notice - as I don't in areas where I have no deep knowledge.
Personally, I don't mind motoring journalists with limited technical knowledge. I just hate it when car salesmen haven't even read the booklet for their own product.....
|
|
|
|
Aprilia - I think that's the point - admittedly it's rather oblique humour and maybe I have too much faith in journalists' knowledge, but nevertheless that's how I'd read it.
|
Hmm, maybe, I'm not so sure.
It is actually 'motoring day' in my evening (regional) paper today. There is a car test in there and as usual it looks like a piece mostly copied from a press release. There is a nice reference to the car having 'thick front and rear anti-roll bars giving it a well damped ride'. Makes my point nicely, I think. Is it too much to ask that people who's full time job it is to write about cars should know something about the technicalities of how they work? Too many journalists use sloppy descriptions and seem to concentrate on whether the ashtray slides out on ball bearings or whether the car has a socket for an iPod. Bring back the days of Chris Gough (was that his name?) on Top Gear - that guy knew something about motors. The current crop would be better off working in a hairdresser's I reckon.
|
|
|
|
|
|
I have driven a few of these as rental cars as France and Germany. They were manual shift 2.0 TDi saloon models. The car was great to drive nice big interior and boot and appeared very solid and well constructed. However, I hated the electronic handbrake. I managed to stall the engine in slow moving traffic and the only way to start it was to push both the clutch and footbrake at the same time. I could not get it to start by dropping it into second gear and bump starting it. This was very scary on a four lane French auto route on the east side of Paris. Basically you have to stop the car to start the engine!! The Audi A6 also has the same issues as it probably uses the same system.
I have also driven a few Renault?s recently, (Scenic, Megane, Laguna, Espace). I also hated the electric handbrake on these cars which come on automatically as soon as you turn off the engine. At least on the Passat you could choose to turn it on or off when the engine was switched off. The Renault Modus has the ?standard old type? handbrake and is much better because of it.
Based upon my experiences with the above cars I would not purchase a car with an electric handbrake.
Q
|
Back to the original question kal I agree with your mate who reckons Passats overpriced and overrated. If you read this column regularly you'd see that Stuartli is a long time VW owner and has been happy with them. I would have thought, however, if he's been a motoring journalist for 15 years he might be a bit more objective and take notice of all the VW bashing threads on this and the technical pages. There's one about Mk 4 Golf gearboxes on as we speak and the trouble people are having getting VW to even be interested. There's so many adverse comments about VWs that it can surely not be a coincidence. Stuartli has obviously been one of the lucky few and I would take his comments with a pinch of salt.
Having said that I'm not exactly objective either as 3 rubbish Golfs I've owned proves. I personally think the new Passat is ok looking but the interior quality is poor and doesn't remotely stand up to the likes of the Avensis or the Accord, my choices if I was buying that sort of car.
|
|
A crisply executed car spoiled by the horrid, horrid, horrid swage line down the side of the car. Completely out of character with the rest of the styling.
|
Personally not keen on the styling - its a bit 'heavy'.
I really don't like electric handbrakes - technology just for the sake of it. How will they stand up after 5 years+ use and it will be another mega-expesive reason to scrap the car if it goes wrong.
|
|
Just seen the add for the new Bora. Cracking ad doffing its hat as it does to the 3 series. Nice one and a nice enough looking motor.
|
|
|
The only advantage I can see is the space liberated by removing the handbrake and I remember reading that the electromechanical brake is safer and holds the car more firmly than a handbrake. Otherwise nothing. It doesn't stike me as a deal-breaker either way as once you get used to the bite point with either handbrake or electric brake then you need never think about it again. As VAG,Renault and Ford and others are rolling out these parking brakes, they are going to be hard to avoid.
I've stalled my car and don't recall having to engage or re-engage the parking brake, so maybe the systems are different.
|
Not unless VW have addressed their quality issues. My experience is with a 2000 Passat 1.8t and a couple of 1997 Polos.
The Passat has had most of the woes listed in HJ's car-by-car breakdown. The latest was a split heater matrix which proved even more expensive to fix. Interior materials that feel nice and doors that slam with a good thunk are only evidence of superficial quality. I feel that more important engineering quality in the hidden bits was sacrificed in the name of cost-cutting.
The Polos fell to pieces and and surprisingly little corrosion resistance.
Honda can look forward to my trade next time.
|
I got the brochure for the "new Passat" a few months ago and although I haven't sat in one yet will be considering one as my next car to replace my Vectra. The styling is much more attractive and up to date than the old model and the list prices seem competitive. The only thing the basic "S" lacks which I would personally want is a front armrest.
I also like the look of the new Jetta, which, as someone has already mentioned, seems to be trying to compete with the BMW 3 series and more perversely the Audi A4. But take a look at the list prices on VW's website. Model for model it seems to be priced the same as the bigger Passat - which seems madness to me. They should have pitched it lower, otherwise I reckon it will bomb like the Bora did.
Interestingly enough the Bora, and no doubt the new Jetta, is very popular in the US, even in white.
|
|
|
|
|
|
I could live very happily with a Passat estate next time if I can't afford another Audi, but it's difficult to ignore the price differences. Taking the 2.0 TDI version,
Audi A4 Avant SE £23,450
VW Passat SE estate £19,480
Skoda Octavia Elegance estate £17,350
Similar cars with similar trim levels.
Oddly enough my 2.5 TDI Avant was much better value (March '04) against a Passat 2.5 TDI, only £1,000 or so extra - one reason why I went for it.
|
|
|
