OK, the temporary Fiesta looks as though it is returning to London this weekend and I get the Scooby back - Hooray! But not so fast....
As much as I love my Forester, the things I liked about the Fiesta were that it was small, nippy, had superb handling and more than a decent ride. I have enjoyed driving it and the smallness and nippyness have come into their own at times, when the Subaru would have been simply too big.
I don't want to keep the Fiesta, because it is too low and there are other things I dislike, but assuming that all modern small cars can be had with air con, CD, heated electric mirrors etc what would you suggest I got that was similar in size to the Fiesta, had similar performance to the 1.25 Zetec, the drivers seat was a couple of inches higher and was basically NOT a Fiesta/Fusion/Corsa/Euroclone but was something a little different.
I thought about some Suzukis and Fiat Panda, Mercedes A-Class. Anything else? Budget to an extent is unlimited but realistically, say £12,000.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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the drivers seat was a couple of inches higher and was basically NOT a Fiesta/Fusion/Corsa/Euroclone but was something a little different.
Modus??? Can be had for very good money now.
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Saw a new Suzuki Swift (vvt ?) the other day, no idea what they go like but it was a good looking little car and seemed big on the inside.
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Audi A2 TDI 90bhp, if you can live with screen pillars in the way and high servicing costs?
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Not as high as you think - my 23,000 mile service cost £209 at a main dealer.
My ford services were £150ish every 10,000 miles.
Good choice though, I always enjoyed my A2 and mine was only the 75 PS diesel version.
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The Suzuki Ignis Sport is the first thing that came to my mind - sporty, nippy little number that after looking on ebay and autotrader can be had for £5k used and a while back you could get brand new ones from main dealers for about £6.5k
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Do not be lead to believe that the new Ford Fiestas are as good as the 1996 one that you had on loan. (In case you are tempted by the Fusion). I find the headroom in the old Fiesta good cf many cars, having a long body and short legs! The current version of the 1.25 engine is different I believe. The 1.4 engine does not feel as lively or as flexible as the old 1.25. The handling and drivability of the 2003 model hatch is not as as precise or as sure footed as either of my 2 1996 1.25 Fiestas (with 90k and 50k respectively) and the new seats are less supportive.
I would be interested in anybodys comments on the latest model.
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pmh (was peter)
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Do not be lead to believe that the new Ford Fiestas are as good as the 1996 one that you had on loan. (In case you are tempted by the Fusion). I find the headroom in the old Fiesta good cf many cars, having a long body and short legs! The current version of the 1.25 engine is different I believe. The 1.4 engine does not feel as lively or as flexible as the old 1.25. The handling and drivability of the 2003 model hatch is not as as precise or as sure footed as either of my 2 1996 1.25 Fiestas (with 90k and 50k respectively) and the new seats are less supportive. I would be interested in anybodys comments on the latest model.
I thought that I would like it, that is until my partner bought one, rejecting my preferences for a Skoda, Seat, Honda and Toyota eqivalents etc.
It's alright I suppose, but the drab interior is unremittingly black and the fascia and controls are so uninspired - and those fascia air vent controls!!
The 1.4 litre Duratec engine, to my mind, is not a patch on the previous sweet revving 1.25 litre engine which she had in her previous 'old shape' Fiesta.
The ride is positively agricultural on the car's 195/50 low profile tyres on 15" wheels (absurd in a car such as this, being the Zetec model).
Overall, then, I'm rather disappointed with Ford's popular car.
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Consider a Citroen C3. Definitely not a Euroclone car and nice high seating position. Our SX has climate control, single CD and heated electric mirrors. You can have a diesel, or a old school 1.4 8v petrol, which does go. Trim's a bit flimsy, but if you don't let the kids in, you'll be ok. Ticks all of your boxes.
My 54 plate ex demo cost £7500 last June. Enough money left over for a good holiday!
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Espada - if I remember right you have to meet / take out clients from time to time.
So, assuming that image is part of the equation, the A-class and Audi A3 suggest themselves (not the 1-series if you need to seat anyone in the back).
New Honda Civic? You either love or loathe the styling, although personally I'd avoid it as I think the lack of visibility is dangerous. Or a Jazz, since you mention Fiesta-size: if only Honda gave you the option of a bigger engine.
Golf 2.0 TDI or Citroen C3 or C4 possibly if the image is sensible rather than too upmarket. Golf Plus if you conclude that Fiesta-size is too small after the Forester.
Today's Autocar has a long-term test of a Suzuki Swift 1.5 which has so far impressed its keeper.
Actually if I were in the market for a car that size I'd have a Fabia VRS and stuff the image.....
Hope that helps!
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Would avoid an A-class, too many design flaws and not well liked by repairers due to the need to remove half the car to do simple maintenance. Suzuki Swift would be the one for me.
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Nissan Micra? Honda Jazz? Mazda2?
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Tyro has already mentioned Nissan Micra, our 2004 1.4SE fits all your criteria, including having the high seating position, so is very easy to get in and out of!
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sticking to Fiesta sized cars (or even smaller)
Panda - Nice and high, 5drs, easy to get in and out of and fun to drive. Also cheap to run in every aspect! (I've just bought one btw). Dealers are willing to deal. 1.3Diesel is the one to have and comes in miles under your budget. 1.2 petrol very cheap indeed and in Eleganza trim you get all the toys mentioned in your original post.
My friend kept on about the Yaris when I was buying the Panda. These are bombproof in all respects including depreciation apparently. D4D would be my choice costs permitting (alas they weren't)
Both cars HIGHLY RECOMENDED in the cbyc breakdown.
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Espada, I know its just a hypothetical question, but you say
"smallness and nippyness have come into their own at times, when the Subaru would have been simply too big."
Out of curiosity, what were these occasions and do you think that these few occasions would justify the smaller car, over the other 99% of time when the Subaru would be the preferred option?
Just being curious!
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I'm really pleased you've asked this question as I've been pondering this too. There are very few occasions where I need a large car and it would make good sense for me to downsize and hire or fly/drive when necessary.
No-one has yet mentioned the Smart Forfour yet. I tried the 1.5 petrol and was impressed, although when I drove a Getz 1.4 and Swift 1.5 I preferred them - better ride comfort and pricing.
Whilst in the Suzuki showroom I took a look at the Ignis. It's a car I'd never really paid attention to. They look quite substantial and their height certainly gives them surprising amounts of interior room. I haven't driven one but most magazine reviews are a bit dismissive (although the one on the AA site is very positive). The Sport looks quite interesting. Other than depreciation, it's hard to find a bad word written about Suzuki cars. (I thought they might be badly marketed, but looking at 2005 registrations they sold only 3,000 units less than FIAT).
I investigated the A2, but they look expensive to me compared with the Asian superminis.
I drove a Sirion 1.3 on Saturday and that's my current favourite. It does everything the Swift does but for about a grand less. Daihatsu has a great reputation for reliability and their dealers are mostly family owned.
On paper the Jazz would be the ideal car, although there's something just a bit naff about its image - too blue rinse.
The Panda is a good car but I wouldn't want to depend on a Fiat dealer whilst the car is in warranty.
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How about a Mini?
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Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
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Thanks all for the advice.
Some suggestions are too low, but the obvious ones to look at are Audi A2, Jazz, Modus. I also thought about Idea and Meriva?
Golf etc is so similar to Subaru so no point in changing. Don't want French cars really so that puts out Clio and C3. Yes I know the Modus is French as well. Suzuki make several models of interest, plus the new Fiat/Suzuki JV 4x4. and image to an extent is an issue, although than I thought!
And in response to the question about when the Fiesta was better than the Subaru? - Well, mainly in traffic jams, car parks etc, when the lack of about 2 feet in length made a bid difference to getting somewhere!
Thanks All
I have another hypothetical question on another thread!!!
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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I have driven a 1.8 petrol Meriva, a nice drive, really rather sporty with 125 bhp, worth consideration.
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Edit
image to an extent is an issue, although LESS than I thought!
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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And in response to the question about when the Fiesta was better than the Subaru? - Well, mainly in traffic jams, car parks etc, when the lack of about 2 feet in length made a bid difference to getting somewhere!
I imagine that the width also made a difference in car parks.
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Certainly helped!
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Audi A2 suggestion has given me some thoughts!
but as it has been discontinued, how do I find the fuel consumption figures for it and other discontinued models. Is there is a central website for all cars?
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Audi A2 suggestion has given me some thoughts! but as it has been discontinued, how do I find the fuel consumption figures for it and other discontinued models. Is there is a central website for all cars? -- Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
If you get stuck, i'll look it up in an old Top Gear mag.
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From my ownership experience 45 mpg was easy round town 60 on a run achievable.
For more info:
www.a2oc.net/forum/
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Image this situation...
I want to buy a car with window price of £12,000.
I want to trade in the old car which if sold privately would bring say £2,000.
I intend to pay the balance without finance.
There are a number of options the dealer can do: -
1. get the old car underwritten at say £1,500 and say £10,500 plus the old car for the new one, less any discount I negotiate; or
2. p/x the old car and offer an inflated value for it but no discount on the new one.
Am I right? Is there any difference? Are there any other options apart from selling the old one privately?
PS this is a real hypothetical question - I think!
What is the best thing to do, or is it simply down to 'amount to change'?
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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In short it is the cost to change that is important, you reckon that it is about £10k, so negotiate to reduce this though it does not matter whether this is via discount off the new car or an increased offer for the car you are trading, or a bit of both.
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In your circumstances, I would imagine that the "amount to change" is the only real factor.....
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Yes, it's the amount of cash you actually pay that counts every time. I remember being offered £500 for my old Sierra in a trade in or £500 off the screen price if I didn't trade in.....
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So far as I can see all that matters to the customer is cost to change. The dealer will have a bottom line for his profit on the deal. Whether he dresses that up as discount or a "£2000 for any runner" offer will depend on his target audience and perhaps his take on the psychology of the customer sitting opposite.
If the trade in price is inflated then the dealer will still probably complete the bookwork on the actual Glass's value. Watched dealer do exactly that yrs ago trading in a ropy old Mini for £1k. Salesman then books it as £400 and enters a £600 discount on the ticket price of the BX we were buying to balance.
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Thought so.
When we bought the Hyundai, I wanted sell my Volvo. We agreed a cash deal for the Hyundai - Either £11,000 plus the Volvo or £16,000. If I sold the Volvo privately for more than £5,000 I was better off. I did and I was.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Key factor 'price to change' unless you are self employed and the vehicles are included in the business, when the actual values given to each vehicle may alter available capital allowances, at least in the short term.
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The "price to change" is what you are interested in, but the dealer has another consideration ~ namely the VAT that he will have to pay. On more than one occasion I have been told to look only at the bottom line ( i.e. "price to change") on the invoice. On these occasions both the P/X value and the new car price had been lowered from what had been agreed. The lower the price of the car the dealer is selling the lower will be his VAT bill.
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L\'escargot.
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>>namely the VAT that he will have to pay.>>
But my understanding is that businesses reclaim VAT - it's the final buyer that meets the full cost of the VAT in the end.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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PS
I've also come across this manipulation of the sticker price and PX allowance, but presumed it was to increase the amount of VAT the dealers would be to claim back.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Bear in mind that if the car is a wrong-un and you want to get your money back (ie reject it) then you will lose out if you agree a £10k cost to change but by reference to a sale price of say £11k with an allowance on your trade in of £1k. You would only get 11k back in these circs.
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>>But my understanding is that businesses reclaim VAT - it's the final buyer that meets the full cost of the VAT in the end.
It works something like this:
A) Mr Stuartli. I have a verra nice carra for you to buy. It costa you £11,750, you like it?
B) Stuartli, old boy. Car for sale here. It will cost you £10,000 plus vat of 1,750, how does that sound?
A & B are the same car, and to Stuartli it makes no difference. Stuartli pays the VAT to the dealer in B, and the dealer pays the VAT on to Mr Brown. In A, who knows what's going on!
So the lower the cost of the car to you, the less VAT the dealer pays to the VAT man. That's why the p ex of the mini was booked as a combination of discount and px.
So, new car costs £10,600. Mini is worth £400 but you are given £1000 for it. How much VAT do you pay to the dealer - and how much VAT does he pay to Mr Gordon Brown?
1) VAT on £10,600 = £1,855.
2) Book £600 discount, then VAT on £10,000 = £1,750
It makes no difference to you, but the dealer has saved himself £105.
I have no doubt that if he booked the mini in as 'nil' and sold the car for 9,600 that he would be a naughty boy and Mr Brown would have his guts for garters. Just as if you try to manipulate your capital allowances too much.
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