>>The explanation you received is typical of modern service desk staff who wouldn't know a fuel pump from their elbow.
service receptionist,only knows what they are told.best bet is ask to speak to superviser or technician doing the job-though thats unlikely
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Steve
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>>service receptionist,only knows what they are told.best bet is ask to speak to superviser or technician doing the job-though thats unlikely
indeed. live and learn *sigh*
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Said it before and I'll say it again; *most* main dealers are not in business to fix cars, they're in business to make money. Service manager and technicians are all on bonus to find work they can bill you for.
Having said that, I think you will struggle to get anywhere legally. You have been quoted some seriously high parts prices...
A new fuel pump for your 2.0i petrol is about £120 retail(Siemens part no. 228-222-008-012C) - trade price is about £80-90. 1 hour to fit.
Belt change is about a 3.5 hour job - straightforward enough. The belt doesn't cost much (£20 for the OE part, I think). Water pump is driven by the belt - its about another 3/4 hour on top to R&R it.
To replace belt when pump is leaking is just plain stupid. I would halt the job and contact customer. They were probably banking on you not knowing it was driven off the cambelt so they could charge again.
Don't think you can do much other than go back and complain about the leaking pump issue. Say you'll pay one hour labour and cost of the pump - they should sort it out then, that's fair.
Pads, disc, tie-rod ends are all fairly cheap for these cars from GSF. Don't know exact prices, but off the top of my head well under £150 for all discs and pads. £20 ea. for tie rod ends.
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Thanks, this info is exceptionally useful. The "local garage" said they charge £25/hr labour, so i'll be looking at ~ £150 for the fuel pump change there, rather than £300 from the dealer.
Also the info on time to change, cost of belt, and confirmation RE the water pump adds fuel to my fire for my discussion with them tomorrow.
Having just discussed with the misses (a trainee-solicitor) it would seem small claims court would be the way to go, aparently a bit of a "judge judy" affair, about £30 to bring the case to court, and basically a case of whether I, or the garage, convince the judge that we're in the right. Written evidence, etc (which i'm lacking due to most of this being done on the phone) is useful, but doesnt make or break you.
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I can understand why you went to the main dealer as the breakdown was an unknown quantity to you and they have the diagnostic equipment.
Surely the priority was to get the car running again. The car was not running because it was not getting any fuel. Fuel senders do not pump fuel. The pump does that, so the fact that your instruments were not showing empty was irrelevent. Its a simple test to see wether the tank is empty or the pump is not working.
The cambelt and service was really a side issue and you should have gone to an independent for that work if you want value for money. Main dealer prices are legendary!
Having asked them to do the cambelt the failure to tackle the waterpump as Aprila says is inexcusable. New cambelt and new waterpump at the same time is always recommended because of the accessability issue. Did they change the pulleys as well??
They have identified further work which you should get done by an independent.
Waterpump/cambelt/anti-freeze £75.01 in Dec 2002(for parts)
I really dont think you have much of a case they have done what you asked.
I would tow the car away and get an independent fix the fuel pump and put the whole incident down to expensive experience!
Fullchat
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My main dealer charges £60 + VAT / hour so at Aprilas estimate thats £210 labour for the cambelt. Say £30 for the belt (dealer price). Your up to nearly £300 just for fitting the cambelt.
Then there is the service. What did they do for that and were there any parts? I should ask for a full price breakdown before you go any further. Whilst you have paid top money I think you would be a loser at the small claims court. What exactly is it that you are claiming for?
Fullchat
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My main dealer charges £60 + VAT / hour so at Aprilas estimate thats £210 labour for the cambelt. Say £30 for the belt (dealer price). Your up to nearly £300 just for fitting the cambelt. Then there is the service. What did they do for that and were there any parts? I should ask for a full price breakdown before you go any further. Whilst you have paid top money I think you would be a loser at the small claims court. What exactly is it that you are claiming for?
Presumably for reassembling the car when the pump had been identified as needing replacement, thereby requiring him to pay twice for disassembly costs?
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Indeed, plus perhaps the cost of the (mis)diagnosis, and of the difference in cost in rectifying the actual problem as opposed to the one they identified.
Hopefully such a legal process can be avoided, i'm hoping (assuming im no closer to my death bed cold wise!) to be able to talk it through with them and come to a sensible arrangement.
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Ultimately, if they'd come back to me and said "it's a falty instrument cluster, it'll be £300 to replace it" i'd have likely said "don't bother, i'll monitor my milage on the trip meter" and done things that way, I know the car well enough to know it clears 550 miles on a tank, so refil every 400 would be the plan.
I cant imagine a sender gague part would break £50, plus an hours labour (i believe you get to it from under the rear seat?). Again, worst case, a job i could not have done, or do myself in an afternoon.
As for the cost of the service/cambelt, as you say, no real cause for complaint there, I asked for it to be done (and ought to have checked the cost, fainted, and declined first, but the "euphoria" of it not being a serious problem got me), and it has been, i'm willing to swallow that if it comes to it, but the waste of labour to change the water pump i'm not happy with and would like this rectified.
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On many the primary fuel pump and sender unit are a combined assembly - maybe that is why the confusion occured with the girl on the desk. It is a problem when you can't speak to the man doing the job, but that's partly because the managers employ people who can hardly speak (cheap labour) whereas they should employ graduates of at least HND or HNC.
{Drop the attitude and puerile descriptions of lower class people than yourself, before I go drop your account once again! DD}
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>>whereas they should employ graduates of at least HND or HNC.
get a life,they are only receptionists.(not meant as sounded)needed for office skill`s,that probably even the office manager cannot do-whats needed is mechanics not the so called excuse thats now called a technician doing six weeks training,which on completion is called a techy.whatever happened to the apprentice?,
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Steve
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I said "MAN DOING THE JOB" [workshop] - not receptionist.
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>>I said "MAN DOING THE JOB" [workshop] - not receptionist.
Sorry missread,though you didnt have to shout.My later point still stands
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Steve
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Hi I would get it towed to the local garadge. £600 for a cambelt and service ignoring the rest is an outradge. My local independant would do this for about 300ish. Be warned they may try and charge you for diagnosis and storadge time though.
paul
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They want £41 for the diagnosis, dont think they'll go for a storage fee.
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"they should employ graduates of at least HND or HNC."
Why will academic qualifications (arguably tenuous ones at that) give the customer a better customer service at the reception? I'd much rather employ someone who is personable and knowledgeable about the industry they are working in than whether or not they have a HND/C or any other academic qualification you could mention.
From my 10 years experience of higher education administration, I've found that people who actually register on such courses largely do so because they don't have the ability to do a degree. Kind of defeats your argument!
Sorry mods for wondering OT.
TT
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Top Turkey - the fastest hands in Brum
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Top Turkey I've read some idiotic comments on this board, yours is par excellance.
I am near completing my HND in Aeronautical engineering, my 4 year apprenticeship didn't qualify. Why did i not do a degree? i've got a house, wife and 2 children to feed and look after. Oh and a little matter i could not afford to take 3 years out to go to uni/poly.
To many people in this country doing absolutely useless degrees and getting an 'ology, to stack shelves.
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Not everyone wants to do a degree - I only did a HND after my A'Levels because I knew that I would get too bored being at Uni for 3 years, 2 was quite enough. Also, HND/C's tend to have a much more practical aspect to the course, where as many degree's are purely academic.
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Back on topic i reckon the best the OP can expect is for the main dealer to do the water pump at a reduced labour rate because they should not have proceeded with the cambelt change with the leaking water pump job on the cards. Also questioning the parts costs with Aprilla's info in hand might bear fruit.
Threatening to take the car elsewhere will not help, i.e it is better to try to get more for what you have paid than to go elsewhere and start again.
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I agree with this suggestion. Whilst a dubious practice to quote "book time" for each job (hence double-charging for labour) it is common practice in the industry. It's how the workshops achieve their bonuses by achieving high efficiencies.
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"Drop the attitude and puerile descriptions of lower class people than yourself, before I go drop your account once again! DD"
I don't want to stir anything up unnecessarily, DD - we've been down this road many times - but maybe you are being a bit too PC here? No individual or company has been libelled, after all, and we all know there are some 'gorillas' - or however else one may care to describe them - in the motor trade?
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To respond to the 'Ishok Leyland' comment - HNC and HND are not degree qualifications (so people who have them are not 'graduates'), they are technician qualifications validated by EdExel. Over the next few years they are likely to be phased out and replaced by Foundation Degrees (2 years, about 2/3 of a 'normal' dgree).
HNC and HND are 'vocational' qualifications and have a substantial practical element. They are entirely appropriate for someone working as an automotive technician. These days, with complex electronics and systems such as ESP and VVT, it is necessary for technicians to have a good theoretical understanding of how a system works as well as good 'spannering' skills. Unfortunately too many technicians have neither. A lot of it is down to dealers not wanting to pay decent wages and putting too much pressure on technicians (i.e. the 'book time' is not the time taken to do the job, it is often considered the **maximum** time allowable to do the job - so customer is charged for 3 hours book time, technician rushes the job and does it in 2 hours - the extra hour charged for is therefore split as extra profit for dealer and bonus for technician).
A lot of the good techys get sick of this sort of regime, leave and set up as mobile mechanics, independents etc etc.
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To respond to the 'Ishok Leyland' comment - HNC and HND are not degree qualifications (so people who have them are not 'graduates'), they are technician qualifications validated by EdExel. Over the next few years they are likely to be phased out and replaced by Foundation Degrees (2 years, about 2/3 of a 'normal' dgree). HNC and HND are 'vocational' qualifications and have a substantial practical element. They are entirely appropriate for someone working as an automotive technician.
Crikey ! I did HNC as an MOD student engineer in avaition.
Its nice to think that technicians in garages would be qualified to this level, however I would dispute that this is actually the reality, as if you have a HNC/HND in an electronics subject you probably aren't looking at working in a car dealer.
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Crikey ! I did HNC as an MOD student engineer in avaition. Its nice to think that technicians in garages would be qualified to this level, however I would dispute that this is actually the reality, as if you have a HNC/HND in an electronics subject you probably aren't looking at working in a car dealer.
There are certainly some HNC/HND guys working as vehicle technicians - usually on the diagnostics side. Admittedly you probably won't ever find more than one in a dealer. They can pull in pretty good money though, especially working for one of the prestige brands. I know for a fact that there are degree-qualified engineers doing diagnostic work - local Jag dealer used to employ one.
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Andrew, you have email. DD
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