Reading an artical today that the Land Rover Defender is unlikely to survive beyond 2010 due to emissions and crash regulations, and arguments are raging throughout Fords ivory towers wether to replace it at all.
Apparently low sales don't justify replacement development costs and the British Army throwing in the towel could be the final death knell of a (another British) motoring icon.
Any thoughts?
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What's the army going to have instead? Hummers? Little Suzuki things? Lamborghini Cheetahs I hope.
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They'll probably use Mercedes G wagons or Jeeps instead? The Land Rovers they have will last a while anyway, and you never know, a new model might be developed!
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They'll probably order loads of the things and stockpile them. This happened in about 1997, something to do with noise emissions, i was working on a AFV storage base and more and more Land Rovers kept appearing. I think they were V8's, but i could be wrong.
I wouldn't have thought that Hummers would be suitable, bearing in mind IS duties, unless they went for two replacements, one for IS and one for more convential duties.
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emmisions should be no different from disco .enquired about a new one yesterday and without paying extra you can only get green,maybe this is a replacement www.ibexvehicles.com/
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I would imagine that Ford have got bigger concerns on their mind at the moment than the future of the Defender.
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Apparently low sales don't justify replacement development costs and the British Army throwing in the towel could be the final death knell of a (another British) motoring icon.
has the army actually said it's going to stop buying them?
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I have not heard anything and I am quite close to 'the wire'...
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Does the g wagon still live on ? Brilliant things and go on forever but only really seen 20 yr A/C reg models on the roads.
Paul
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I seem to recall this was predicted about a year ago, when teh MOD signed up with mercedes. Apparently partly due to EU homogenisation of Army equipment.
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Despite the worldwide reputation of the beast in its various military forms,an ill-maintained or damaged Land Rover can be an alarming sight. In the Sahara the ones I have seen have never been anything but capable and reassuring even in demanding conditions. But following a stark armoured British one down the Falls Road in my little yellow hired Fiesta in 1982 or so I was amazed to see it slow down while shuddering hideously, the front wheels and steering oscillating in an out-of-control way. The squaddies in the back, their rifles pointed out and down in my general direction, were falling about with laughter but alhamdulillah didn't open fire. I had a pre-war Fiat that did that, before I was allowed to drive unfortunately.
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I think they might be considering the FIAT/IVECO LMV 4x4 military vehicle. In fact already have about 400 options on BAe modified versions to be called Panthers.
I've been reading Auto Car of couse but it sounds like a decent military replacement for a the old Land Rover. To quote:
"The LMV has had to undergo plenty of other tests, including one from the British Army to gauge its resistance to sniper fire. Instead of subjecting it to a Hollywood-style hail of bullets, a sniper picks off parts of the bodywork with high velocity rounds until he has worked his way around the whole vehicle. None penetrated."
Try www.autocar.co.uk/FirstDrive_Summary.asp?RT_ID=217...5
It's even slightly stealthy and comes with varying levels of armour. Drive over a landmine and you should survive!
Rob
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Sad when you reply to yourself but looking at this website:
www.army-technology.com/contractors/vehicles/iveco/
It looks like the British Army is definately buying these. Suppose the hummer is a little too big and probably not as versatile or safe.
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I suppose as an outpost of some sort of offshore world power entity it doesn't really matter but when I were a nipper you had to try to make military kit yourself if possible. So anyone over a certain age would really quite like it if Land Rover came up with an undeniably superior and economical new thing, the way it did in the first place. But I suppose it doesn't really exist any more in that sense and is Ford anyway. Actually I seem to remember that a few years ago sales of military Land Rovers to other governments, which were quite healthy, had some sort of government connection here, but don't remember the details. How much are these Fiat stealth jeeps anyway?
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How much are these Fiat stealth jeeps anyway?
Never mind what the RRP is. Huge stocks of pre-registered FIAT Stilos are available at massive discounts through the likes of Motorpoint, and I'm sure if you say that you'd prefer a stealth jeep they'll get one for you ...
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The Fiat LMV4 is clearly more advanced than any Land Rover and has at least the virtue of being European (i.e. not American or Asian). I am still amazed though that this country hasn't bothered to come up with its own product in this area. In the 50s/60s there was a thing called the Austin Champ that the army used for a while. Clearly its all-independent suspension was thought too complex and fragile for the time as examples started to appear on the used market at low prices almost immediately, and are now quite rare. I drove one once on a rough farm road and its smoothness and composure over the bumps and rocks were a revelation.
I would suggest a militarized LR Discovery having recently made a journey in a V6 turbodiesel example and been very impressed with its silence, performance and economy. However the same vehicle, which belongs to a friend, has now 'blown' its turbo at something like 8,000 miles from new. According to the owner there were no untoward explosions or clouds of smoke, just a sudden loss of power.
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I belive that a tweaked version of the mondeo diesel is going to be fitted as a stop gap for emmission regs, but after 2010 who knows.
Depending on which LR magazine you read there could possibly be a replacement based on Disco3 as the chassis could apparantly be modified to accept various bodies
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What on earth have emissions got to do with army vehicles?
Oil tanks blazing in Kuwait, our gallant lads moving in to repell the invader, and up comes a little man to test whether the exhaust emisions meet the latest EU specifications?
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The US forces in Iraq have been borrowing Land Rovers because they were found to be far superior to the Hummer. Seems a shame that the Army is going elsewhere.
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The only reason the MOD are looking else where is the landie does not have the load carrying capacity required. Simply put it can not carry enough weight.Do not know about failing emissions.
Hummer will be a non starter the weight of it will mean it will only be able to be underslung by a Chinook, it is also to big in terms of LIMS Linear Meters, you will not be able to get as many on the RoRo.
Lots of talk about Mercedes G wagon, they already manaufacture a military version, that can IIRC carry about 1000KG more than the Landie.
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All military Defenders still use the 300Tdi and not the TD5 there was talk of assembly in Turkey & Brasil to reduce costs, but at the moment i don't think there is a will in Ford to fund a direct replacement
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Apparently the standard Defender uses the 'storm' TD5 engine and is the last Ford group vehicle to use this engine. It will not meet the expected future Euro4 emission regulations.
The Army will stop using Defenders by the end of the decade too.
Source: Autocar.
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I saw something about Army plans to stop using Defenders because they couldn't carry a new increased payload.
I can't imagine them using Hummers - did anyone else see that episode of Top Gear when Clarkson tried to drive one through an Oxfordshire village with narrow, winding streets?
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Slightly off thread but petty officialdom is alive and well! Last month a soldier on a military trooping flight to the Sandpit in Iraq had his swiss army knife taken off him but was allowed on with his SA80!
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And exactly how usefull is a SA80 without amunition, not a lot.He certainly would not have been carrying magazines that were charged.
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