I've used halfords fully synth 5w40 in the bikes for years. No problems. R1 at 75k miles, no sign of clutch slip.
www.ixion.org.uk/faq/oil2.html
Of course other people have other opinions!
Martin
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Car oils are just as good in bikes as branded motorcycle oils, wet clutch or dry. My bike gets whatever I've got, which is often diesel and in the six years I have owned it there have been no problems.
For all you hear about wet clutches slipping through using car oil, I doubt if you will ever come across anyone who has actually experienced it.
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Lots of different opinions out there ...
chrislawson.net/kz/techtips.shtml
www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Motorcy...x
sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_oil/
I use motorcycle oil in mine, but am quite happy to believe that car oil works fine in many (even most) bikes.
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Sorry, I have not been able to log on today, lots of useful points, thanks guys. Marlot's point about the wet clutch on bikes is a good one, I have read about fully synth being blamed for clutch slip though it seems that the jury is out on it. On the other had there are clearly a lot of people using both synth and semi synth car oils in bikes with no probs, also the guy I asked at the local Halfords reckoned that the 10/40 motorcycle oil is the same as the 10/40 'car' oil anyway though I really dont think he is an expert on these matters. I will give it some further thought and post again.
Regards.
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Cheddar,
Do you really want to wear out your bike clutch for the sake of £20, after all i guess like the majority of fellow bikers you'll only do about 6K a year max and change the oil every year.
For the record i use Castrol GPS in my CBR1000F it's what my local Honda dealer recommends.
How much will it cost to change a clutch on a ZXR1100??
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>>Do you really want to wear out your bike clutch for the sake of £20>>
No clearly so will probably stick with the Rock Oil.
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The respected American magazine Cycle ran an extensive test on car and motorcycle oils a few years ago. They enlisted independant scientific reserch in having the oils tested after both types were used in bike engines and came to the conclusion that there was no difference in the protection offered, and in some cases the car oils had withstood the test better than the branded motorcycle oils. They also found no evidence of wet clutches being caused to slip by the car oil.
They presented their findings to the oil companies who promised to get back to them but never did. I had the link to the article at one time and I think I posted it on here if you do a search.
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I really am in two minds, for forty quid or so I can put 20 ltrs of Halfords 'car' semi synth in the garage which will do me three changes on the Clio and two on the ZRX when they would normally cost the best part of 20 quid each.
Might phone Halfords HO today, to see if they have a tech bod there.
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If there was that much difference, in these litigious times, motorbike manuals would be plastered with 'do not use oil intended for cars' or similar.
This is a marketing issue, not a technical one.
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Sorry - rather bald statement above. I accept that there are some motorcycle-specific oils, but I submit, m'lud, that the differences are relatively trivial.
Having an oil with deliberately reduced anti-wear properties would worry me more than the remote possibility of clutch slip (which should have been designed out in the first place)!
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If there was that much difference, in these litigious times, motorbike manuals would be plastered with 'do not use oil intended for cars' or similar.
Mine does!!!! Its labelled CAUTION and in big, bold type.
"In order to prevent clutch slippage (since the engine oil also lubricates the clutch), do not mix any chemical additives with the oil or use oils of a higher grade than 'CD'. In addition, do not use oils labelled 'Energy Conserving II' or higher"
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I have a Suzuki TL1000S 1997. This was the first year of production & the clutch was a bit marginal. Later years had an extra spring in the clutch. Being twin cylinder, it has plenty of torque. After running in I, put in Mobil 1 fully synthetic oil. This caused the clutch to start slipping at peak torque revs. I've since changed back to semi-synth & problem resolved.
But it was only really a problem due to the poor initial clutch design.
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>>Might phone Halfords HO today, to see if they have a tech bod there.>>
Well I have done so, they acknowledged that their oils are made by Comma, stated that the motorcycle oil is a different formula and put me on to a tech chap at Comma who is out until Monday, more info then.
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Mine does!!!! Its labelled CAUTION and in big, bold type.
"In order to prevent clutch slippage (since the engine oil also lubricates the clutch), do not mix any chemical additives with the oil or use oils of a higher grade than 'CD'. In addition, do not use oils labelled 'Energy Conserving II' or higher"<<
Mine too - exact;y the same warning.
Dont forget that motorcycle clutches operate after the primary drive and are therefore handling torque levels greater than that at the crank - in my Yamaha's case, about 1.7 times the torque at the crank (and a lower speed). Also the clutch is hand operated and so has a different set of design parameters to a car clutch.
I put semi-synthetic bike oil in mine - It also has the advantage of being red - so I can see it in the sight glass !
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"I think I posted it on here"
This?
www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.htm
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This one has consumed biker discussions as long as I've been around.
The main issue is that of water-cooled vs. air-cooled engines. The latter run hotter and traditionally work harder.
As modern car engines have progressed, lighter weight oils for water-cooled engines are the norm (10w40 etc). At the same time the anti-wear additives like zinc and phosporous have been reduced, primarily as I understand it because they are not good for catalysers.
Most 20w/50 oils are still designed for air-cooled engines, so you're safe with any of those. Castrol 4T 20w/50 dino oil is still the best bike-oil bang for your buck IMHO. If you're into synthetics, Mobil 1 is OK, not the best but reasonably available and cheaper than the equivalents. Then again some of the cheapest car oils are as good if not better than the fancy ones and will work well. They're made at the same refineries anyway.
If your bike is just a commuter I'd say it doesn't matter.
Far more important than what you put in there are regular changes. Take the manufacture's mileage recommendation, halve it, that should be your absolute limit. If you're working short runs at low temperatures, halve it again. This was taught me years ago by my old shop foreman and I have got many overhaul-free miles following this dictum.
There IS an issue with wet clutches running API SJ and above in some machines. I've had several bikes locally with this problem where car oils have been used. If it is a problem for you than a motorcycle oil SH or earlier is a must. I would not bother with semi-synth -- something with 10% of synth in it to my mind is nothing.
In sum, I would go with my instincts. My very expensive Ducati 916 (if I had one!!) would get the finest Repsol or Silkolene because if I can afford the bike I can afford the oil. Our Harleys get Redline 20w/50 synth -- for my money the finest oil for V-Twins there is. They are high dollar motorcycles and that makes me sleep better at night. My ratty Kawa Vulcan for going to the mall gets (when I remember to change the oil) whatever's at the bottom of cans from previous oil changes (last time a cocktail of Mobil SuperXHP for cars, half-a-quart of Harley bike oil and other half-quart of primary chaincase lubricant I added by mistake!) Like most Japanese bikes it is infuriatingly immune to abuse.
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I think the Ducati has a dry clutch so the problem doesn't exist, and Harleys are tractors so diesel oil will do them :-)
Seriously, I've run bikes for years on Halfords semi-synth with no problem, if you own a bike with a marginal clutch then it will slip regardless of what oil you use. I don't like being ripped off for old tech oils in small containers, try buying 5 litres of bike oil, they all appear to only sell it in 4 litres now, so you have to buy an extra litre bottle for topping up. I put 55,000 miles on my last bike in 5 years, and changed the oil and filter every 5,000 with no clutch problems at all.
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Speaking as an ex-courier who put about 150K miles on a couple of bikes (a VF500 and an FJ1200) I ONLY used car oil. Never had a problem with either bike. Someone once talked me into using Slick50 on the Honda (at about 50K miles) and the clutch immediately started to slip. I suspect it was marginal anyway and, once replaced, it was fine.
I used to change my oil every other week (3000 miles) and the oil filter when I could be bothered (about every 15,000 miles if the bike was lucky).
I suspect a degree of marketing rubbish in the claims that are made, as neither of these bikes ever gave any cause for concern that could be laid at the foot of lack of lubrication.
If the spec is the same bar the word "motorcycle" on the packaging, I'd just bung it in.
V
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As per above, Halfords HQ acknowledged that their oils are made by Comma and put me on to a tech chap at Comma whom I called today, he was happy to discuss the bike wet clutch issue, agreed that some fully synth oils can cause problems with a wet clucth and stated categorically that the Halfords 10w/40 semi synth 'car' oil contains no additives that will cause any bike clutch problems. Although he understandably would not confirm that the two Halfords 10/40 Semi synth products were the exactly the same he said all but said as much and confirmed that both products could be used in both applications without a problem.
Regards.
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Cheddar,
So have I followed this correctly?
From your conversation with the Comma chap, both Diesel and Petrol semi-synth are the same thing, apart from the labelling?
(Allegedly?) :-)
rg
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No, rather perhaps. 10/40 Semi Synth (green packaging) and 10/40 MotorCycle Semi Synth (reddish brown packaging) are effectively the same product, I did not ask about the diesel product however as long as the specs match the cars requirements it should be fine. This thread discussed the motorcycle wet clutch issue, it is thought that some car oils may cause clutch slippage on wet clutch motorcycles.
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And my two penn'orth?
Never handle "wet" clutch plates with hands that have been in touch with gear oil... unless you want your bike to go into "speed-limited torque converter" mode...
(My '72 Triumph Bonnie circa 1978)
r
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