and couldnt always be relied upon to work properly, and was v expensive to engineer, so it quietly died a death.
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RF - Da DAA. < changes in phone box > Its TOURVAN man
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The airbag has been around a lot longer than that. It was fitted to cars in the States in the 50s.
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And the car that was available to the public with an airbag in the 50's was?
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TourVanMan < yes its RF reborn >
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According to this site, the first car for sale with an airbag was the 1973 Oldsmobile Toronado.
www.motorvista.com/airhist.htm
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I wonder how many of us have experienced an airbag going off? Have they protected anyone here from serious injury or worse?
I've had them for nine years now in two cars and am happy that they have not been activated. I guess I should be thinking about replacing them, but I don't always go with the flow in terms of perception and estimation of risk (talk insurance and my eyes glaze over, so when its optional I opt out).
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If you watched Fifth Gear you would have seen the 10yo air bag being deployed in a 'real' accident. The driver was wearing a seatbelt and did not appear to touch the bag at all.
I am glad that the EU has made ABS compulsory as it will reduce the number of accidents, rather than just making accidents safer.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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I am glad that the EU has made ABS compulsory as it will reduce the number of accidents, rather than just making accidents safer.
Personally I don't think so, well, not as much as people think. I know for a fact I could outbreak the ABS in my 306. It's too cowardly! It waves a white flag long before the tyres are out of grip. Very annoying in some cases.
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Back to the age of the airbag, I remember seeing an old and very repeated episode of the cult spoof, Police Squad?? that eventually gave birth to Naked Gun 2 1/2.
It must have been 70s vintage. There was a comical scene where this FBI car had run into a wall and the airbag proceeded to fill the whole of the passenger compartment.
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AFAIK the moment of contact with an airbag is extremely brief, actually measured in milliseconds. I would suppose it's better than having the wheel pull away from you or some such similar system because it actually helps prevent your body snapping forward too quickly which probably contributes to many fatalities. A moveable steering wheel wouldn't actually do anything to control your movement.
Blue
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POlice squad was 1982!
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TourVanMan < yes its RF reborn >
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>> I am glad that the EU has made ABS compulsory as >> it will reduce the number of accidents, rather than just >> making accidents safer. Personally I don't think so, well, not as much as people think. I know for a fact I could outbreak the ABS in my 306. It's too cowardly! It waves a white flag long before the tyres are out of grip. Very annoying in some cases.
I know this is your opinion and in that much it is perfectly valid, but I don't agree with you at all. I have thought about this question myself-I consider myself a 'good' driver (doesn't everyone?)-certainly in as much as I understand the principles of car control, advanced techniques, how braking affects the car and how to correct various unwanted conditions whilst in motion, such as skids, lockups under braking etc but consider this-
It's all well and good knowing you can extract a few percent more stopping power without ABS enabled and the car under your control, thereby stopping shorter than an ABS equipped car whose driver keeps the pedal through the floor till the car stops-and I can believe you can do that, I think I could even. No, the time ABS matters is in an emergency situation-I challenge you that in a sudden emergency-car suddenly goes broadside in front of you, someone runs out in front of your car etc-to do anything other than stand on the brake pedal and lock up all the way to the point of impact; I bet you'd do just that.
Besides, ABS isn't about shortest stopping distances-it's about enabling the driver to retain steering whilst under heavy braking.
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The 5th gear test wasn't a true accident as the driver knew what was going to happen - it was a test to see if the airbag worked after ten years, not that it saved the drivers face from being mangled!. After the accident he complained about his wrist hurting as it was braced against the steering wheel to prevent the airbag hitting him.
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I wonder how many of us have experienced an airbag going off? Have they protected anyone here from serious injury or worse?
yes me, Oct 19th, see the thread "what price ncap 5* rating" and the pics of the written off laguna on the HJ MSN group.
Front drivers, front passenger, seat side, and two curtain airbags, 5 deployed out of the 8.
The drivers airbag causes bruising abrasions and burns to my arms (all only slight) the curtain airbag made me deaf in my right ear (its back a Bit now) and the combination of the side impact, side airbag, and seat belt pre tensioners combined to crack three ribs. Save my life or serious injury? who knows.
the scary thing is the seat belt tensioners.they are wicked and forceful and instantly wind you. 5 airbags makes a lot of noise as well and it gets very hot and smoky inside.
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TourVanMan < yes its RF reborn >
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I mentioned to a friend over lunch today as were talking car stuff that did he realise it is the 25th anniversary of the Air Bag. He said he knew only too well, it's his silver wedding on Saturday.
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and couldnt always be relied upon to work properly, and was v expensive to engineer, so it quietly died a death.
My nephew is a VW/AUDI/BOSCH trained mechanic & I remember him telling me a tale about the Procon 10 device a few years ago. His garage had an apprentice working with them & his job for the day was to fit an alarm system to an Audi 80 fitted with said device, as he was wiring it up in the engine bay, he knocked a sensor which was followed by a bang & whooshing sound. He jumped back & the gaffer came rushing over to see what had happened. When the gaffer looked in the car the Procon 10 system had worked perfectly. Unfortunately this ended up writing the car off & the gaffer had to make a phone call. The nephew regrets not being a fly on the wall when the owner stormed into the gaffers office.
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My nephew is a VW/AUDI/BOSCH trained mechanic & I remember him telling me a tale about the Procon 10 device a few years ago. His garage had an apprentice working with them & his job for the day was to fit an alarm system to an Audi 80 fitted with said device, as he was wiring it up in the engine bay, he knocked a sensor which was followed by a bang & whooshing sound. He jumped back & the gaffer came rushing over to see what had happened. When the gaffer looked in the car the Procon 10 system had worked perfectly.
Funny, I always thought that Procon-Ten ("programmed contraction and tension") was a passive mechanical system, ie. the engine block had to be displaced to pull the steel cables and collapse the steering column...?
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TVM, my father suffered similar injuries with just the standard 2 airbags going off. His temporary deafness and subsequent tinnitus that is still with him a year on was compounded by the fact that he was driving a van. Without the usual car trimmings and back seats to suppress the sound it was effectively like firing a gun twice inside a metal box! Having said all that he is alive and well today and quite possibly not have survived in a non air bagged equipped vehicle. He even did go on to spec his new van with every airbag available!
As a side - the tremendous force of the accident was enough to twist the thick-steel tool strong box bolted tight to the bulkhead in the rear of the van! The way this force was dissipated away from the cabin area was a true test of quality engineering.
DB
PS - going back to my one of my original questions, no one, so far, has discussed the importance of the number of airbags, are 12 better then 10 or should we be demanding 20, etc!
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PS - going back to my one of my original questions, no one, so far, has discussed the importance of the number of airbags, are 12 better then 10 or should we be demanding 20, etc!
Glad to hear your Dad was okay. I appreciate what youre saying, air bags are proven to be a valuable safety feature, but how far do you go? No matter how many air bags you put in a car, you'll never be 100% safe. It all adds weight, complexity, and cost to cars, for something you might never use.
Maybe my opinion would change if I was in a bad accident and felt I was saved by my airbags? I dont know.
What about active systems where cars will brake if they get too close to one another? Would have to be very good to prevent a head-on collision of 2 cars doing 80mph.
Maybe we ought to be looking more at initiatives to raise driving standards as a whole? A very tall order I know. No-one intends to have a crash, but if many drivers improved their observation, awareness, and ability, then less crashes might happen.
All in my own humble opinion.
Rich.
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How safe do people feel whilst in their cars these days? Do you think the death toll could be lower still if people felt that the air bags and safety features in their vehicles were worth nothing? I realise there is now no practical way of introducing a feeling of 'vulnerability' to a car as new designs always want to be more refined, quiet and comfortable etc. I realise a 'feeling of vulnerability' is not necessary for a good, safe driver but imagine some of the idiots out there who believe they can't die or even be injured in a car crash.
I don't feel 'safe' in any car, although I would like to have as many saftey features as possible. There are still many kinds of crashes that would generally be considered unsurvivable regardless of car type.
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