What to buy?
Hmm let me see, contact lenses, glasses perhaps. Some therapy sessions?
Corolla? over a Focus?
:: mutter ::
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RF - currently 1 Renault short of a family
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I too would have a Corolla over a Focus.
And no i'm not biased.
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I'm really surprised that you enjoyed the Corolla more than the Focus. I've only driven the cooking, barely even lukewarm versions of either, but I find the Focus much sharper and more willing than the Corolla. The 1.4 I drove was also only showing 31 mpg on the trip computer...
I think the accepted wisdom on Foci is that the 1.8 is a bit pointless (I know Adam has one) - it's got the thirst of the 2.0 with the performance of the 1.6, when ideally it should be the other way round.
I also agree with Adam that simply looking at an Alfa will be more fun than either the Focus or the Toyota. And finally, how's this for an off the wall choice - the new Kia Rio. I arrived for the test drive in a 1.6 Focus and frankly, the Kia drives as sharply and when I pulled off in the Focus afterwards I actually checked to see if the handbrake was still on. No image but 60 mpg and £8k brand new and an astonishingly fun car to drive.
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Take the Alfa, everybody else has got Focus's & the gentry have got Corollas. I had an Alfa 146 2.0 twinspark & loved it. It ate Golf GTI's & other boy racer cars for breakfast. My wifes uncle had an Alfa 156 2.0 twinspark, gave me a go in it & WOW, this thing moved. Breathtaking is the word I would use. If you dont want to stand out & be different buy the Focus or Corolla. If you want fun in abundance buy the Alfa. You just can't beat a Twinspark engine, even Clarkson says everyone must have at least one in their driving life.
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I've got a 2003 03 plate Focus 2.0 zetec 3 dr hatch and i'm in love with it. It handles superbly, and really rewards fast driving. It holds the road superbly, feels assured on it's big rubber boots, and no squeaks / rattles.
Buy one - you will not be disappointed!
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I reckon you should look at the Alfa 156. If you can get a properly seviced car, you will find them cheaper than you think. I have had mine from new (6 years) and it still makes me smile when I get behind the wheel. The 2.0 Twin Spark is fast enough, would not bother with the V6 as that is a real hooligan.
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If you like the Corolla and enjoyed driving it then buy it. There is a huge anti-jap or anti cars like the corolla attitude on this board. I wonder if people have ever driven one? Or is it just copy cat opinionating based on Clarkson et al... I drove two different versions in Australia a couple of years ago (one 1.8 auto of the old model - very smooth, quiet and surprisingly well set up with good ride and handling at speeds that are legal I hasten to add and a 2 litre auto saloon of the new style - very well put together and comfortable) and was very impressed.
I'd rather have a competent car that was 100% reliable than some of the makes people continue to buy here with known reliability problems that cost time and money to fix.
Is it the fact that there will be nothing to tinker with, no stories to tell about how you got it fixed with mate down the road who "knows" or the fact that it will start every morning for its entire life mean that people don't want to own one. I would not want a washing machine or a DVD player that was KNOWN to breakdown frequently or have to have major repairs within a couple of years..so I expect 100% reliability from a car too. No defects, no out of order downtime...that is what the jap makes achieve very impressively and why year on year they sell more cars, profitably than everyone else.
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How many times? There isn't an anti-jap culture. Far from it - I think there's a pro Jap, pro Citroen culture despite what the car.
The Corolla is a boring car. If it was called a Ford Focus, it woudl be boring. If it was called a BMW, it would still be boring. Not because it's Japanese, but because it's boring.
I've been in and driven many Japanese cars. The paragon of reliability but in the main, they've left me feeling numb.
(The Supra didn't, nor did the Skylne oddly enough. I'd have either in a flash).
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My mate had an AR 145 Cloverleaf - 7 years on he still regrets getting rid of it. Pick up an Alfa for about 3 - 4k, stick the remainder in the bank to pay for a few repairs, and smile. A lot if you buy a Cloverleaf.
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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I drove a previous generation Focus 1.6 rental car from Dublin airport to Carrick-on-Shannon and back, and whilst it was no ball of fire, couldn't believe how this mass market econo hatch could be such a rewarding drive. Late at night, making serious progress on an empty road that I know well, I was amazed at the terrific poise of this car. Out of all hatches that I've driven, the only one that can hold a candle to the Focus is the 306. Here, I find the 306 to handle as well and to ride even better (SWMBO's 306 1.8 SR - a Sedan not a hatch to be exact - is one of the best handling and riding cars at any price that I have found), but right at the limit, and I mean right at the limit, the 306 is more nervous than the Focus. In both cases I'm comparing cold or luke warm models, not hot variants.
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How many times? There isn't an anti-jap culture. Far from it - I think there's a pro Jap, pro Citroen culture despite what the car.
A pro Citroen culture in the UK? Which part of the UK would that be in?
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I didn't say the UK. I was on about here. Primarily you. I mean that in the nicest possible way. Look - I'll even throw a ;-) in just to show I'm being lighthearted. But you seem intent on rubbishing every single car unless it's a ZX or a C5. In fact, I don't think you've praised any other car.
It's the same with Japanese cars. I can't say I don't like them now because they're Japanese. Therefore, they're the best thing ever.
God knows I have some odd tastes but I can't lie and say I like Toyotas, Hondas, Nissans, Subarus and the like. The Impreza STi - gorgeous on the outside but awful inside. In fact, my Dad's 626 looks nicer and that's saying something.
I'm not saying I'd never have a Japanese car. I'm just saying reliability isn't everything. I want something with a bit of soul.
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"they sell more cars, profitably than everyone else."
And why Nissan had to be rescued by Renault.
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RF - currently 1 Renault short of a family
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I would recommend going for a 147 2.0. I have a 147 GTA and they are great cars - no problems at all - and they have just scored better than just about every Mercedes model on the Top Gear survey.
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"they sell more cars, profitably than everyone else." And why Nissan had to be rescued by Renault.
Which Renault could do because it had been the happy beneficiary of a lot of state aid, without which Renault itself might well have been in deep trouble. AFAIK, Nissan is now back healthily in profit.
Toyota is heading for global No. 1, very profitably. And Honda remains independent and is doing very well.
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"The Corolla is a boring car. If it was called a Ford Focus, it woudl be boring. If it was called a BMW, it would still be boring. Not because it's Japanese, but because it's boring."
......I'm fascinated by this, why is it boring? I'm quite happy to accept that you find it so, but can you rationalise why? I don't understand how two mass-produced cars, same size, pretty much same spec, similar shape and similar target market can be perceived so differently. Perhaps if I drove both back to back then I could?
Baz
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"you seem intent on rubbishing every single car unless it's a ZX or a C5. In fact, I don't think you've praised any other car.
"
Adam, That is grossly unfair - Machika is also full of praise for Xantias, and I agree with him!!!!
Phil
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Sssh Phil - Michael will be along soon to back you up!
Bazza, I don't think I can explain. It just happens. I see a 156 and think how gorgeous it looks instantly. I see a 645 and think the same. I see a Corolla/Avensis etc and feel...nothing. I really can't explain it (although the interiors are dreadfully dull).
On the flip side, I think the new Accord looks fantastic and the 2.4 is definitely on the potential future car list. And yes, I think it looks far better than the Mondeo.
Anyway, ack to robide's question.
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Somebody say Xantia? Brilliant cars ;)
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I will admit that prior to working for Toyota i thought they were dull cars for dull people but having extensively driven most of the Toyota range i am now a convert.
I have driven other comparable cars and whilst they may have slightly better handling or looks most toyota's are OK at most things and are extremely easy to live with.
I am personally considering an Avenis 2.2D4D as my company car and considering i now have a free choice from the whole market i think that is pretty good.
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I am no accountant but I find it utterly baffling that Renault is supposedly in such rude financial health and a few years ago was able to complete a frankly smoke and mirrors re-invention of the finances of Nissan...
I really would like someone to explain in simple terms how Renault is so profitable given that it manages to sell well only in the small and medium sector, building them in a relatively high cost country famous for short working weeks and has no real viable presence in some growing sectors eg 4x4s/SUVs. When you couple in what must be higher than average warranty claims given the below average reliability (from endless years of being in the bottom half of Which and JD Power surveys) and I wonder how Mr Goshn has pulled off the trick....
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building them in a relatively high cost country famous for short working weeks
I hope you are not believing that all Renaults are built in France?
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It has very low component costs, it sells a *lot* of small medium cars in most of Europe, The Espace sells well in the high profit margin market.
Its now working on warranty costs, the reason it snared Nissan.
There is a lot of jiggery pokery around labour costs in France, with employee benefits and social costs offset against tax breaks for French owned companies.
Mostly French cars sell well. This is done with a scatter gun approach to market segments (even creating some like the scenic and espace sectors) and no fear of pushing design boundries.
Sometimes it works bigtime (Scenic, twingo, espace) sometines it fails (Aventime, Vel satis,) The jury is out on the Modus.
The failure of the Aventime is a crime, I want one so much it hurts. Prices are creepng up tho.
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RF - currently 1 Renault short of a family
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Wow, a lot has happened in this one since I posted last night! I guess I should start checking this at work!
To answer the question about why I prefer the Corolla to the Focus - the answer is simply - I do. I don't know why. It certainly isn't down to the looks of the interior, the focus wins there hands down. I think its because I didn't find any noticable differences between the 1.8 Focus and 1.6 Corolla, other than the petrol consumption is much higher in the focus. Granted, I haven't been in a 2 litre - and I doubt I will, mainly because I have points, and don't want to pay any more than needed on insurance considering how much higher my insurance is. Perhaps I should take out a 1.6 to get a better comparisson though.
I am surprised to see so many people say the Focus over the Corolla though. It will be interesting on the "Test Day" as I call it to see how they compare (I intend on hitting 2 or 4 garages, and taking out my final choices on the same day to get a better comparisson.)
With regards to the Alfa, I'm not sure I want to go for a 2 litre TBH. Partially due to insurance, and partially because they cost about the same as a 1.6 Corolla, with MUCH higher repair and fuel costs. This is why I've been looking at the 1.6 instead. Is it worth getting an Alfa which is less than the 2 litre? And for those of you who own one - what are the typical service costs associated with one?
To through another curve ball in there - what are peoples opinions of the MG ZR? Worth a punt considering how cheap they are, or should I steer well clear?
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Urgh! Different log in! I didn't know I had another one.... Unless its the brothers!
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