Like most people of my age I spend my student years making do with DIY on cars. I lived in a through road in Leicester, so I acquired a few traffic cones and positioned them near my car whilst working on it.
I spend about £400 on my Ranault 11 - in 5 years of ownership! That included the best part of £100 to get it through the MOT just before I sold it. That time it needed new brake pipes and a few other bits.
The most complicated job I ever undertook was an engine rebuild, for (wait for it) a Talbot Horizon! Yes, the tappets still rattled afterwards :). I did this under the watchful eye of a fellow engineering student who's brother owned an engine reconditioning outfit up north.
When I started work after graduating, I continued to do the more basic tasks, servicing, brake linings etc. Anything requiring major work was entrusted tothe garage, and to be honest it didn't cost the earth.
Nowadays, we've got two cars that hardly ever need anything doing to them and one that is DIY easy (Discovery). If I can effect a repair or job efficiently (when compared with what I can earn on a job), then time permitting I may. However, I have a client who sometimes works on my Discovery - and at the moment he owes me a cam belt change in leu of some work I did for him.
H
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I enjoy tinkering on my old Renault Dauphine but don't touch the Megane, apart from an oil change. Too complex.
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I used to do every single thing on my cars and those of the family, but nowadays I can't touch the C5 - yet that's really because no workshop manual exists and so much of it needs checking on a computer.The irony of it is that I now work with computers for a living!
Years ago I can recall my sister phoning me to say her Riley Elf had lost all gears in the middle of a town 40 miles away. I got a good strong rope, towed her out through the traffic and home then set about 'fixing it'
I removed engine and gearbox then took all the gearbox apart (bits all over the garage floor as I recall) It turned out that a securing nut had come off one of the selector forks and dropped into the bottom of the box.
I replaced the nut (tightly!) put the gearbox back together again, mated it back up with engine and hoisted it all back into the car.
Worked a treat!
I agree - there is a desperate need for information on these new cars. It's not (just) an unwillingness / inabiity to get stuck into repairs - more a determination on the part of manufacturers and dealers to preserve profit margins.
I doubt very much that dealers have real expertise anyway. They either listen to what the computer says or keep on changing parts until a problem goes away!
Graeme
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Graeme
Totally agree on the last sentence.
Have a Mondeo (sorry) and it had a squeak from suspension. 12-18 months ago during a sevice they diagnose a bush on front anti-roll bar being dry (but it squaked from 3 months) and they greased. Problem solved and they added if it came back probably needed a new anti-roll bar bush.
Twelve months later, exactly the same noise back and book into the same garage. Day one despite beig told about the bush and to look at old records,... they get nowhere.
They get for two days the following week and eventually fix it... but afternoon of day two I pop round and nothing has happened but told test drive about to happen. Then speak to mechanic who then knows it's the same car.... end result... front anti-roll bar bush replaced and noise gone.
Real bottom line since they first looked at this last year... 4 days to charge work to and this time 3 of those days. Despite me telling them: (1) same noise and (2) same location, i.e. same problem as last year.
Glad I didn't pay the bill
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Yes like a lot here I did my first learning with the old man, fettling a series of sheds to keep them going. In those days two weeks in cornwall meant a large bag of tools in the back and a lot of luck. I did my engineering apprentiship and can make most things out of most materials. The skills were used to maintain the family tradition and keep a series of more modern sheds (both 2 and 4 wheels) going and looking smart. I kept Nicoles sheds going despite the fact I now ran fully serviced company cars.
Frankly the idea of adding more grease and oil under more skinned knuckles while on my back on a cold concrete garage floor is no longer appealing.
I dont do sheds any more.
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RF - currently 1 Renault short of a family
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In my original comment (quoted in the first post) I wasn't suggesting that youngsters would actually learn how to service cars from watching TV programmes, more that if there were a bit of technical content then it might spark an interest in engineering amongst the youngsters. If say, when Top Gear review a new car with new features they could spend just a couple of minutes explaining how it works then I think that would be all to the good. The sad fact is that most young lads would rather discuss hair gels and skin lotion these days than the technical aspects of their cars. Even car 'modifying' consists of going to Halfords and buying some bits that stick on with double-sided tape.
As to DIY'ing - well, there's still a heck of a lot you can do on your car without the aid of a computer. Most aspects of the braking systems (discs, pads, fluid), engine and transmission fluids and filters, belts, cooling system, suspension and steering. Granted, most modern cars are very reliable, but you can still do a lot of servicing and save a lot of money - and do it right. I've seen plenty of 'full dealer service history' cars with original pollen filter, fuel filter, belts etc.
For the price of 2 hours of main dealer labour you can buy a decent set of tools. For 5 hours of labour you can buy yourself a semi-professional set that can be used to tackle almost any job and will easily last 10+years.
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I have always been a die-hard DIYer as I too was one of those that helped Dad do pretty much everything on his cars, from full engine strip downs and rebuilds, to panel beating and spraying. No car I have ever owned to date as ever gone to a garage for a "service" and sad as it may seem now, I prided myself on this.
Having bought a "newish" car, one with full main dealer service history, I have to admit to being swayed by this. Service history is held in such high regard here in the UK, that I am beginning to feel that I should continue this in order to maintain as much of my car's value as possible.
I am trying my hardest to resist the instinctive urge to rush out and buy all new filters and fluids and doing them myself. I keep holding back thinking that I might be better off saving the money to buy a rubber stamp in the service book.
To take the car into a main dealer for a "service" like the other clueless people I used to make fun of would be the death-blow, but then the lesser option of an Independent service wouldn't give me the prettier, more valuable stamp for my book.
Maybe I was never meant to drive a nice car, my Mother was certainly convinced that my Father wasn't.
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I have an inspection pit which was built into the garage when the property was built. The only DIY it sees is when it needs me to dry it out, once every few years, when the rain that year has been sufficient for water to accumulate at the bottom of the pit. For me, DIY is the pits! ;-)
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L\'escargot.
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Bicycles - Everything including building my own wheels.
Motorcycles - Most things, including engine out & stripdown.
Cars - Only the basics now. I just can't be bothered because of the lack of accessability of everything. Things like starter motors and alternators which used to be fifteen minute jobs now need half the car removed before you can even see them. I don't even change the oil on the Mondeo myself now, taking the undertray off is too much of a fag when one of the fast fits will do Oil and filter for what I would pay for them myself.
I still do the changes on SWMBO's Saxo though.
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Reading Aprilia's comments made me think not so much about the DIY aspect but about the fact that our motoring programs only concern seems to be how flash a motor looks and how much tyre smoke it can generate. Yes I'm a grumpy git. I remember seeing a German motoring program a few years ago, I was amazed not only by the fact they were road testing a car that an average person could afford but they actually gave relevant info not just personal opinion.
As for DIY, well with labour charges what they are I have too. Timing belts, engine swaps, cylinder head gaskets, all diesel these days. Fortunately I can't afford a car that needs dealer kit.
Just for info, when I say I can't afford a new car, what I mean is that I don't want saddling with a large debt for a item that costs a lot to run, will get scratched/dinted to death by selfish morons and will be worth a fraction of what it costs a few years down the line.
As for dumbing down......... X factor, etc. etc.
Steve.
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am trying my hardest to resist the instinctive urge
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trancer.
don't resist. if you can, and have the time and inclination, and enjoy doing it, then do it yourself. keep all records and receipts. if a seller can show me that they have the tools and knowledge to diy, i would trust their work more than a dealer stamp.
do just three services on your 330d and you will probabbly save nearly £1000. even if someone reduces your eventual selling price by that amount due to lack of dealer stamped service history, you will have the satisfaction of knowing that the right service was done to your car. in any case, you can always get a dealer service done the week before you sell your car.
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am trying my hardest to resist the instinctive urge
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Well, you can send it to the dealer for an oil change - and get that glorious stamp. And then do the rest yourself. Or you can buy yourself a rubber stamp £5 from a stamp shop saying 'Trancer garage services', stamp the book, smudge the stamp and squiggle a signature.
Will the car be worth anything by the time you sell it? If not, then the fsh will make little/no difference to the value.
My father latterly had his low-mileage 1999 Vectra serviced by a good independent garage. I have the fsh in front of me. Annually they have changed the plugs, the oil and the pollen filter. This bears no relation to the service schedule which calls for changed brake fluid every 2 years; plugs that have a 3 year life; pollen filters with a 2 year life; changed radiator coolant etc.
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If say, when Top Gear review a new car with new features they could spend just a couple of minutes explaining how it works then I think that would be all to the good.
Sadly, I don't think most motoring journalists are up to the task. I was horrified to find out how little some knew when I was asked to check over a magazine feature before it was published!
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I think for the modern generation learning basic car DiY is far more difficult than when I was younger. Most serviceable parts were easy to get at and you started by doing the simple jobs like plugs and points and as your spannering skils grew you could progress up the scale. Most things other than internal engine componants were visible and easy to get at.
Now you need to remove covers to get at the plugs, undertrays to undo the sump plug and everything is crammed in so tightly other parts have to be taken off first. The capacity for a major mistake by an inexperienced DiYer must be rather daunting, and I can understand the modern generation being as reluctant to try and repair a car as I would TV.
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Now you need to remove covers to get at the plugs, undertrays to undo the sump plug and everything is crammed in so tightly other parts have to be taken off first. The capacity for a major mistake by an inexperienced DiYer must be rather daunting, and I can understand the modern generation being as reluctant to try and repair a car as I would TV.
Those plastic covers are just designed to put you off. Just find out where the fixings are and remove them.
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I seem to be coming back to DIY after umpteen poor experiences with garages.
I tried getting oil & filter changes done to save me some time and mess, yet the garages seem to use apprentices to do the 'mundane' jobs and the results have been poor.
Garage 1 - didn't put the oil filler cap on - oil everywhere
Garage 2 - didn't tighten the filter correctly, oil everywhere
Garage 3 - managed the filter but only screwed half of the under-engine baffle back on so it clashed on speed humps!
I guess the jobs were done by a disinterested workies - in all the oil and filter changes I've done on many different cars I've not had any problems.
So its back to lying on cold conrete for me!
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I own a car which is very DiY friendly (see profile), but do I do any maintenance on it myself? Well, very little, practically everything?s done at my trusted local specialist.
I would have no problems with servicing it myself, as I must be one of few people my age that knows what they're doing. But I don?t have very much equipment that makes access easy/safe. A set of ramps (which seem increasing difficult to get a hold of) or an inspection pit might encourage me to do far more. But I don?t fancy sitting underneath a car on the roadside supported by axel stands. Our garage is currently being extended, but my dad refused to take this opportunity to put an inspection pit in :-(
Small jobs like fettling rattling exhausts, changing pads and disks and even a thermostat change are all jobs which I've done at home (with the supervision of my dad of course!). It was more convenient for me to do it, than having to book it in for a day, when I could have it done myself in an hour.
Other than that, I don?t see the point in having to sit out in the cold/rain getting my knuckles scraped and dirty on the odd days I?ve got time, when I can drop it off at a competent garage, and have the day to myself doing other things. Also, then have ALL the tools and parts at their disposal, so should anything crop up, they can fettle it there and then. (and not have to fix the current problem, look for parts and start again like DiYers have to do) Yeah it costs a little bit more, (£110 for a full service) but this is the price I?m willing to pay for convenience.
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I think I mentioned once before on here that I was once (10 years ago) interviewed by an Autocar journalist on the subject of automotive electronics. The guy came up from London with a tape recorder and we went out for lunch. He was a very nice and likeable young chap, but knew almost nothing about cars. He'd been to some private school and then done a degree in music!
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That is quite amusing as I met an old friend at a wedding recently and she worked as a senior product planner for Mazda Europe in Germany and did not have a driving licence or any real interest in cars. She said she found the job pretty boring. She too had a degree in Music and German. I really did wonder what her skills were for the job.
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I diy both our cars but on some jobs our local garage who do MOTs are much quicker, can buy parts more cheaply and can chnage a lower suspension arm on a Fiesta quicker than I can buy one.
On the other hand I object to paying £150 for an oil, all filters change and a quick check when I can do that for £30...
So I mix and match. Yes I have a pit . No - I hardly use it: once a year for rust checking? Ramps are quicker than removing the cover etc..
madf
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On Men and Motors the other night which was quite entertaining until near the end they were giving advice on how to tart your motor up.
Fit a new stering wheel was the advice and they went through a collection in a shop ranging from plastic up to leather.
The man in the shop then went out and demonstrated how easy it was. Just undo the retaing bolt and pull the old one off its splines and rebolt the new one on.
They then went on to say even if it has an airbag its still very simple and much the same as the one demonstrated on.
This surely was very dangerous advice and I expected to see an immediate thread on this advice.
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I have always done all jobs on my cars until recently, bar one exception.About 20 years ago my Citroen CX needed a new driveshaft, I was working 12hour shifts at the time, so decided to leave it at the local garage. I dropped it off on my way to the station. Wife phoned me mid morning, it turned out that somehow in driving the car into their workshop they had managed to pop out the gearbox end of the driveshaft which promptly punched a hole in the gearbox casing. They were able to get away with welding this back up. Later they phoned wife to pick it up. She drove away but as soon as the car got up to above 25mph the whole car shook violently. She took it back but they denied it was anything to do with work they had done. So on return from work I looked at the new shaft, there was loads of play at the gearbox end. Felt the gaiter & one of the triaxle balls had been displaced off its shaft when they had fitted it & rolling round in the gaiter. Needless to say was the last time I used that or any other garage until recently. Just bought a C5 Hdi 2.2. This is Euro4 emissions complient I belive so has a particle filter on the exhaust. Within a month of buying I had anti-pollution alarm up & engine in limp home mode. Guessed it was due to this particle filter but having looked under the car & seeing 2 electrical sensors & 2 pressure pipes connected to said particle filter, decided I would need an OBD2 diagnostic. Sure enough, diagnostic advised particle filter needs changing, estimate £200+. I knew little about the car at the time so might have left it for the job to be done, but needed the car over the next few days. The next morning the fault had cleared. Turns out this filter is self cleaning with some help from special fluid injected with fuel, but it didn't stop the garage trying to rip me off. Trouble is now that cars are getting so complicated electronically that a lot of things are beyond the average diy'r. But I will continue as far as I can.
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I have a client, who is a builder, he has a van and know enough about it to get by, so when it started sqeeking during braking he took it to the dealer (from where it was purchased)to be inspected they checked the brakes and told him that he would need new pads in 6ooo miles not convinced he went home and checked one wheel to find the pad was down to metal. he now belives the dealership wanted to replace the disks and pads, so he poped down the local factors for the pads and changed them for himself.
I myself find if you drop hints like "I read this in the haynes manual" or " I have discussed this on a forum" the garage or dealer is less likely to try and swindle you and in fact be more honest. The best place though in any dealership is the parts department, they have loads of info on any car in there range and 9 times out of 10 give them the reg and they could tell you each part and how to fit it.
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