Took a 2 year old BMW 318i Compact for a test drive from Croydon BMW - lovely car only 16,600 miles auto.leather.sunroof etc. but on start up it rattled like a diesl for 2 mins and the oil warning light came on. Checked the oil level under pretence of looking at the engine and it was well below minimum and not very clean. Took HJ's advise and stayed well clear as this engines complex engine valve gear/cam chains could have been be damaged.
The Lesson to pass on to all motorists is that oil will only be good for 15,000 if there is enough of it left in the engine - ie you still have to check the oil evry 2-3000 miles as modern engines do use oil, in fact are designed to I believe.
Another probelm with 15,000 mile service intervals is that Disc brakes can needed servicing much earlier e.g if rears are sticking like on many cars or pads are worn
Charles Fox
South Croydon
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Another probelm with 15,000 mile service intervals is that Disc brakes can needed servicing much earlier e.g if rears are sticking like on many cars ......
I've had several cars (Citroen ZX Volcane, Peugeot 306 XSi, 2-off Focus Ghia) with disc brakes all round and not had any brake problems. My experience is that modern cars are so reliable that long service intervals are no problem.
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L\'escargot.
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Even on a modern car, I still check the oil level manually every week, even with an oil level gauge on the dashboard. Gives me a chance to see what condition the oil is in.
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I think this is over reacting a bit. The car in question had obviously not been looked after 'between' services as prescribed. Had the oil level been checked and topped up regularly there should be no problems with this service interval. I'm sure BMW recommend very high quality synthetic oil as do VaG, and it is proven that these oils are very robust compared to oils of bygone days.
Brake pads may be an issue on long service intervals, but on most cars now they are fairly easy to check, and in fact even if the warning light comes on, this still means you have quite a few hundred miles before hitting metal.
I think you are right though, the car you looked at was probably a pup if the oil had been allowed to get that low !
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The problem with some of these little BMW's, especially the company/leased ones is that they get thrashed to hell and back from new. That means more oil gets burned (high rpm in low gears) and the engine does suffer a bit overall. I have seen them at this sort of mileage with the front discs worn out, which tells you a fair bit about how they've been driven.
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Even on a modern car, I still check the oil level manually every week, even with an oil level gauge on the dashboard. Gives me a chance to see what condition the oil is in.
Can't do that in my current car (Merc C Class) - it doesn't have a dipstick.
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If the correct longlife narrow viscosity synthetics are used then 15000 is possible in a stock road car.
Modding and trackdays is a no, no though as the oil's life is shortened.
Cheers
Simon
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The oil may not get chopped up so quickly but what about the contaminents from petrol and combustion? These are still present and causing damage.
I personally never leave my engine oil in for that long. I just don't believe it is good for the engine and it costs very little in the grand scheme of things.
The real reason for extended service intervals is to satisfy fleet managers who purchase cars on whole life cost. So to get a slice of the fleet pie manufacturers are competing with each other for the longest service intervals. Fleet purchases make up the vast majority of new car sales in this country.
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\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
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The isuues surely are that increased technology, tolerances, and oils do make extenteded services possible. It is all a question of balanced risk. Any car will do 50k on one fill of oil, but the second owner buying the car, will have lots of issues to deal with at 70-80k. If you are a fleet manager you sell old stock at autions anyway, where the market decides the price, you have little control over disposal price. You may secure a good deal at purchase price. In effect lifetime running costs are crucial. Being able to avoid 2-3 services at £250 a go is something under your control, and is very arttractive.
Where does this leave the private owner. Their requirements are different. They may typically hold a car for 5-6 years. What they require is 6 years with no trouble, moderate costs, and good safety. Good regular servicing should secure this, especially on an older car. So, in that light, I slightly over-service. It is also a cost-benifit question.
Oil change £20+; new engine £1500.
Gearbox oil change £10-15+; new autogearbox £2000. The service cost, especially if DIY way outway the replacement cost. For the service manager, a broken gearbox is a problem of mobility and substitution. For the private owner it may be the end of the car or summer holiday.
One final point. 20K servicing may mean 3 years without a good poke around underneath. Surely all cars need checking at least once a year, even with an MOT.
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As a private owner who buys second hand I cannot see the point of taking a car in for a routine service if you enjoy doing simple things like changing oil/filters/brake pads. Most of the 'service'is just observational checks, oiling the doorhinges and filling up the wash-bottle.
I rely on the MoT to spot problems e.g. perishing brake hoses, leaky brake cylinder etc which I can usually deal with. Most garages are only too keen to spot something that needs attention.
Having got a total of over 400,000 out of 2 second hand Passats and 60,000from a 25yr old TR7 I shudder to think how much it would have cost to have had them serviced 'every 10,000m or a year, whichever comes sooner', quite apart from the unnecessary replacement of pads, discs and cambelts 'because it won't last till the next service, sir'.
If it works, don't mend it. Just watch like a hawk for incontinence [water, oil, brake-fluid] and listen for odd noises [worn bearings, loose belts]. The earlier you spot things, the less trouble you will have.
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Another danger of long service intervals is that parts can be replaced too soon.
Friend's Peugeot 406 goes in for a service @ 24 mths - brake pads on the front were replaced as they were more than 50% worn and the next service might be 15K miles away. He paid £120 for pads & fitting.
£120 would have paid an interim service and they may spot a small problem before it becomes a bigger one.
With the above scernario he will almost double the cost of brake pads and any benefit of long service intervals disappears.
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My Renault dCi goes 18K before a service but it would take me two years to clock up that mileage. So I have it done at 9K once a year. I feel much happier doing this anyway, oil and filters are cheap - especially in La Belle France :-)
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My Renault dCi goes 18K before a service but it would take me two years to clock up that mileage. So I have it done at 9K once a year. I feel much happier doing this anyway, oil and filters are cheap - especially in La Belle France :-)
Is it really true that oil is extremely (compared to UK) cheap in France? I've read on other forums that even fully synth like Mobil-1 is less than 20 Euros in the hypermarkets.
I had to argue to get my wife's low mileage Clio serviced every year - my local dealer really didn't want to do it, saying it was totally un-necessary. They then found both rear suspension springs broken (although I'm suspicious they broke them - fixed FOC by Renault).
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Perhaps not 'extremely cheap' but usefully cheaper I would say. I can't remember what I last paid, I will see if I can find out. When I am over in France which is usually a few times a year, I always go into a Renault garage and get a few parts and if the timing is right, get the car serviced there as well.
I believe the 18K service interval is set by Renault UK rather than Renault SA - but I may be wrong.
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What I forgot to say earlier was that this thread sarted talking about oil durability. However what I cant understand is why it is now possible, on quite a few cars, to leave spark plugs and air filters for 40,000 miles. WHY ! Neither of these items are expensive and would have degraded the performance and emissions of the vehicle for quite some time till the service occured surely ?
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When my turbocharged V70 was in standard tune I changed oil per the flexible service indicator, but since tuning it I perform a six monthly change given the increased turbocharger temperature and potential carbon deposits. I intend to keep the car for many years so am happy with this investment.
However, a friendly Volvo techie commenting on my spotless engine bay then related a story about a turbocharged S80 recently brought in for servicing; with over 70k miles on the clock, it came in to the workshop venting fine oil mist out of pretty well every orifice. Investigation showed crankcase breathers to be blocked solid with gunge. Further investigation revealed low oil pressure, and when they whipped the pan off, they found the pickup full of gunge too. With pickup and breathers replaced, the car ran like a jewel. No oil mist, and no oil burning on the overrun from high RPM. End of problem. Why were things so gunged up though?
The reason, as confirmed by the owner, the service book, and Volvo's computerised records, was that this S80 had NEVER been serviced from new! In fact, it had never been to a garage for anything, period, bar tyres, in over 70,000 miles. Not even the brakes, which were down to the backing plates. All the owner had done was top up the oil on a couple of occasions!
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The reason, as confirmed by the owner, the service book, and Volvo's computerised records, was that this S80 had NEVER been serviced from new! In fact, it had never been to a garage for anything, period, bar tyres, in over 70,000 miles. Not even the brakes, which were down to the backing plates. All the owner had done was top up the oil on a couple of occasions!
I hate to say this, but you have to admit he had his moneys worth out of the car if he never spent anything on service costs.
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Quote "I've read on other forums that even fully synth like Mobil-1 is less than 20 Euros in the hypermarkets."
I live in Luxembourg so do most of my shopping in the French Hypermarkets. Mobil-1 fully synthetic is currently ?35 (£24) for 4 litres.
Quote "They then found both rear suspension springs broken (although I'm suspicious they broke them - fixed FOC by Renault).
I had a Renault Clio RXE1.6 98 model before. At three years old the car failed its first MOT due to broken rear suspension springs. I phoned the Renault dealer where I had purchased the car to complain. I was expecting a fight, but the manager said that there were some faulty parts out there and replaced the spring FOC! So I have to be honest I don't think that the garage broke the parts!
Quote "I believe the 18K service interval is set by Renault UK rather than Renault SA - but I may be wrong."
I have a four month old Renault Scenic 1.9DCi. The service interval is 30,000KM (18,750 Miles) so Renault UK must be lowering the service interval compared to main-land Europe!
Regards,
Will.
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Oil needn't be expensive in the uk if you visit a motor factor instead of Halfords.
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"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do"
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Quote "I've read on other forums that even fully synth like Mobil-1 is less than 20 Euros in the hypermarkets." I live in Luxembourg so do most of my shopping in the French Hypermarkets. Mobil-1 fully synthetic is currently ?35 (£24) for 4 litres.
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That's still usefully cheaper than in the UK (typically £35) but not as cheap as I thought.
Quote "They then found both rear suspension springs broken (although I'm suspicious they broke them - fixed FOC by Renault). I had a Renault Clio RXE1.6 98 model before. At three years old the car failed its first MOT due to broken rear suspension springs. I phoned the Renault dealer where I had purchased the car to complain. I was expecting a fight, but the manager said that there were some faulty parts out there and replaced the spring FOC! So I have to be honest I don't think that the garage broke the parts!
Mine was exact same model & year. I was suspicious as the had the car up on a wheel free lift with the back axle dangling - the breaks in the springs looked brand-new. The car had passed its MOT in my local garage (which I know doesn't mean anything) the day before. However, I was further surprised to find the dealer (who never seemed to have anything else in stock) had 10 on the shelf. The dealer said Renault refused to pay. I called Renault and *very gently* suggested that it would cost them a lot of money to recall *every* Clio and replace its springs. They quickly agreed to pay.
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I have a four month old Renault Scenic 1.9DCi. The service interval is 30,000KM (18,750 Miles) so Renault UK must be lowering the service interval compared to main-land Europe! Regards, Will.
Main-land European roads and driving conditions are easier on cars than those in the UK. Individual cars do a lot more miles and hold their value a lot better with high miles than in the UK too.
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