Hi everyone. Thank you all for helping with Q's concerning my american friends. Now I've an issue all of my own!
I have 5 rather heavy dogs that travel with us to dog shows up & down the country. What I need is a huge flat load area estate, very economical (because the miles we put on it are insane), reliable, comfort not performance the preference. That said it does need to get to motorway speeds quickly, overtake caravans & pref cruise at about 85. Also, & this is a would be nice, not essential, it would be useful if the ventilation/aircon extended it's coverage to the boot area, rather than the usual dummy vents. Not vital as I have 2 fans that run off the cigar lighter, but seeing as the aircon is working anyway it seems a shame!
Current limo is a peugeot 406 HDI 110 diesel, which has been pretty much excellent. Only crit really is it's sprung with this current obsession of estates that handle like sportscars (i.e hard, so one sees ears going up & descending in the rear view mirror as one goes over bumps. But it has been excellent otherwise. Now before I go & buy another 2nd hand one, has anyone any ideas of anything else I should be looking at please?
Oh, I do rather like to run my cars until they eventually grind to a halt, rather than sell 'em, so high mileage capability is pretty important. Besides I prefer to buy a car that's only a few years old, but has higher than average mileage.
Thank you all so much for looking at this.
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I have a friend who has three beautiful Bernese Mountain Dogs which he transports in some comfort in a huge Vauxhall Omega Estate. Admittedly his has a 3 litre (or is it 3.2) petrol engine, but you can also get a 2.2 diesel. Relatively cheap, too. Nice comfy car - if you can live with the low-rent interior (IMHO).
I imagine somebody will soon be along to sing the praises of a Citroen C5. Very large. Very comfortable. Very Citroen. But my Labrador HATED the similar suspension in a Citroen CX that I used to have - something about the motion disagreed with him, so it may be a case of 'try before you buy' (love to see the salesman's face if you tried to take all five of them on a test drive).....
Davros
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A dog trainer friend of mine used a SAAB 9-5 diesel estate. It took one malanois, 1 collie, 1 collie/poodle cross, 1 spitz, 1 bitza, and a golden retriever.
It racked up 70,000 very comfortable miles in 2.5 years at 35mpg. No sick dogs.
The arrival of a second malanois finaly tipped it over the balance so it was recently replaced by a SWB low roof VW T5 transporter.
ANd what a very fine van that is. Possibly the finest put together commerial vehicle I have ever seen,
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Do all these dogs get belted in somehow? I can imagine that a minor accident at Editor's 85mph cruise could be very messy otherwise!
(Remembering that safety ad "most people are killed by someone they know" where the unrestrained kid was catapulted into the driver)
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We don't belt our dogs in the car. Usually put them in the footwell or on our laps.
Of course, we've not crashed yet!
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My view would be a Citroen Picasso that you could fit at least some dog cages in the back of.
You can get early ones for around 4 K or less now.
Alternitively, consider RFs suggestion of a Van. Personally I would avoid VW at all costs, unless you can find a BR member who has been happy with VW service franchise - we couldn't.
Personally if you went down the van/minibus route I would look at the Renault Trafic/Vauxhal Vivaro/Nissan Primastar (new shape 51 onwards) SWB, maybe kitted out as a minibus. I drive the Nissan Primastar version of this. It's a 54 reg LWB with a 1.9DCI engine (turbo). It has a 6 speed box and holds its own on any road. IIRC some of the early ones only had the 5 speed box.
I would seriously consider a SWB Varient of the above kitted out as an MPV for the family car, if I needed such a vehicle.
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I agree with your other points H but are you sure buying the cheapest Picasso you could find would be a wise idea?
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It had a custom built lintran travel box.
The VW has been custom fitted out with cages and tack boxes, and the interior has been fibreglass sealed so it can be hosed out.
Hugo
You really *really* need to have a spin in a T5. The build quality is astonishing.
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Can I be the first to suggest the Mondeo TDCi - capacious, not thirsty, good-looking, and very popular with some BRers!
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Hmm, never thought of a mondeo. My experience of Ford is that they're OK up to abt 130k & then it ALL starts to go wrong.
Dogs have front & rear cages, so no catapulting hounds. The cruise speed is Motorway only & only that when safe to do so.
Serves me right for reading this thread from the back upwards. When I was T5 I thought you were on about those ballistic volvos! Actually my other car is a golf cab, & after much hunting around Martins VW Basingstokish get my vote. They're pretty good, but even so Golf (mk 3 2.0) hasn't been without issues.
Any thoughts on the Citroens then? Have to say I know a chocolatier who had a Saab 900 because it had airflow into the boot to keep his choccy from melting, but 35 mpg from a diesel? Oh dear-50 out of the 406 & that's on a fast run too.
Some one convince me out of another Peugeot! I fancy a change, but not a Ford or Vauxhall. Unless the Mondeo really is a high mileage beater. Convince me!
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Toyota Avensis D4D estate? HJ himself is a fan of these D4D engines, and I see plenty about, so they're popular with the reps!
I can't give any 'real' world mpg figures, but it'll probably match your Pug for economy and performance.
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7 seater MPVs usually have a/c to the rear compartment and with the seats out most of them carry their loads fairly low.
A dog enthusiast of my aquaintance in the USA uses a Chrysler Voyager or one of its clones.
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"but 35 mpg from a diesel?"
it was the 135mph plus 3.0 litre diesel.
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Fiat Doblo HDi?
Obviously it's so ugly the dogs will probably throw up before they get into the thing, but it's a cheap, quick, huge, underrated van/MPV hybrid. I remember the guy who did the car style feature on the back of Telegraph Motoring (Stephen something) raving about it in an article last year.
Other vehicles in a similar vein - Cit Berlingo/Peugeot Partner, buth available with HDi, or the Renault Kangoo. Fiat is the biggest of the lot though.
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I know even less about dogs than I do about cars, but I would have thought that one would be looking for a boot with a good-sized floor area for dogs.
Doblos, Berlingos and Kangoos can take a lot of stuff in the boot because, while the floor area isn't big, the distance between the floor and the ceiling is.
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Aaah. That is indeed impressive. Now I want one. But the hounds might think differently!
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With the weight that you'll be carrying, I would have though it worth looking for something with self levelling suspension. My German Shepherds are fine in the back of my Mondeo estate [self levelling is std on some models]. The official Ford dog guard is very sturdy and worth getting if you're not using cages. Ford rubber mats for the load area are only about £30 too.
My previous BMW estate had a very high lip - I had to lift one of the dogs in each time.
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That's a good thought. Guess total weight of animals is abt 140kg & they're short long ones, so not a height issue, just floor space! Do you think that's enough to warrant self levelling suspension? Only weight of a abt 1.5 passengers, albeit at the very rear of the car. Still not convinced abt Ford longevity. I don't think they were ever designed with that criteria in mind. & I'm not being anti Ford, I think exactly the same abt Vauxhall too.
I was looking at the brochure for VW. Do you realise how much these vans weigh?! Abt 3 metric tonnes. Given my intense opinion of SUVs on the school run & in Sainsburys I really can't justify a Van type vehicle!
So I'm going to investiagte the Toyota idea!
BTW is there anything appropriate in the Audi range? Only ask 'coz I have a very good friend working with them & I'm sure a deal on a non-new one could be had.
Thanks to everyone for looking at this.
Anyone new have any opinions/experiences?
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Looked at Audi Avants for shifting dogs, not enough load space. (plus the Malanois chewed up something in the back and we were thrown out of the dealers......)
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Thrown out of the dealers?!!!
Nice one! When we were on the hunt for new sofas the nice people at DFS wouldn't let us bring in the pack-although they'd be getting most of the benefit.
Just looked at the HJ breakdown on the Mondeo estate & he mentions 'two viscious' side pins good for wrecking dogs that are exposed when the rear seats go down. How much of a prob is this, or would a judicious bit of carpet solve it? Thinking about it are these behind the 'dog guard' if it's installed?
Thanks all.
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Editor, have you thought about asking fellow dog breeders about what their solutions are regarding carting the things around? Strikes me that they would have some specific ideas.
Regards,
Barchettaman
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Ford Transit. (Rear window stickers declaring "Dogs in Transit" are readily available.)
--
L\'escargot.
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Dog breeders with several dogs to ship use vans kitted out with cages. Poeple who compete with several dogs use vans kitted out with cages. Those that compete with one or two dogs use 406 estates fitted out with cages, or Berlingo/kango type wagons fitted out with cages. All do large mileages, and all use diesels.
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How about a Rover 75 CDTi..good looking for an estate and will be reliable. Good value as well, even more so in the last few months.
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Just looked at the HJ breakdown on the Mondeo estate & he mentions 'two viscious' side pins good for wrecking dogs that are exposed when the rear seats go down. How much of a prob is this, or would a judicious bit of carpet solve it? Thinking about it are these behind the 'dog guard' if it's installed?
I've been out to the car to check. They are no problem with the seats up - these are pretty substantial pins which hold the seat backs when they are upright.
The official dog guard also attaches around the pins.
Note that the Ford dog guard does not have mesh to the floor level - just for the area above the seat backs. The frame does go down to floor level though.
On balance I would advise that if your dogs will fit in the luggage area then the mondeo might be a good choice, but if you intend to fold the seats then beware the pins.
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Thanks everyone. Went with a 2000 406 136 HDI GTX at 29k in the end. Mondeo was pretty good though-bit notchy on the box & in or our clutch if being picky, but drove superbly. Those pins are at dog eye height though. 406 was nearly grand cheaper & i can just refit my specialist guards back in.
Thanks for everyone's help. Hugely appreciated.
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Odd choice given your critiera, you wanted a car only a few years old and prefer to buy with higher mileage - presumably becuase you appreciate this gives you a better deal.
So.... you buy 5 year old car with ultra-low mileage for year.
Oh well ;)
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I second the VW T5 opinion that RF expresses.
HJ's road test plus my impressions of the Shuttle derivative that I drove are here: www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=105
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