Let me stick my head over the parapet again.
The complexity of modern cars vs those of 30 years ago is a given and harped on to great effect on this forum. Once upon a time anyone with a bit of persistence, a manual and a good toolkit could fix most problems, even tackle quite ambitious jobs successfully. A car was a car was a car for the most part, seen one, seen em all. Not so now it appears.
So, tell me how on earth the "small" garages (owners of which contribute regularly here) manage to keep up with the bewildering array of technical complexity across all the different makes and models nowadays in order to provide a satisfactory service? Presumably if you work for a main dealer you get regular product training. If you are an owner/operator then also presumably you have to spend a lot of time keeping up to date, at your own expense? Time presumably which you would rather spend attending to customers and generating revenue for your business.
The apprenticeship which once might have served you well by giving you a mechanical grounding enabling you to tackle just about anything now has to be overlaid (I'm guessing) with a knowledge of automotive electronics, different makes' differing complexities and so on.
How do you do it? Once upon a time I did a total engine overhaul on a Mercury V-8 in the road outside my house and everything worked fine afterwards. Now I take a look under the hood of my F-150 and cringe. I can't even work out what the various bits are for.
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Good question Growler. Simple answer is to know your own limits and if you don't know something at least know where to find out.
I look after a compact set of customers and their cars. Thankfully I don't have to take in odd jobs at a moments notice and get faced with issues where my understanding is limited. Once I have a particular customer/car they mostly remain for years so I make sure my skills/information build as reqd over time.
Mostly I try to look after Citroen/Peugeots, diesel preferred, from just out of warranty up to 12 years old. The greater amount of vehicles are concentrated in the 1992 - 1998 range.
As far as I'm concerned there is never an issue with any of the "nuts and bolts" parts. Suspension, brakes, engines, gearboxes....all worked on with the same skills as the Morris Minor.
The single main problem I could get faced with is electronics. However you might be amazed that in the six years I've been doing this I've only needed to look at such faults a handful of times. I am very pushy with maintenance to or exceeding makers requirements, the vehicles I look after rarely break down. I'm not saying that's down to me but it is a fact.
Tech information in the form of raw data is easily available with the trade tech books (many up to £50 each) and for more detail I have built up contacts for the makes I look after. On the few occasions I've realised the problem is one related to the electronics/ECU I've arranged for the car to go to the local main dealer for a diagnostic, perhaps about £20 but this can confirm/eliminate in moments.
The internet is an amazing medium for information exchange. The are folks here who have helped me with specifics and I post to a couple of other vehicle forums as needed if there is something I want.
What is daft is when the smaller guys get bogged down going in circles with a fault just to avoid going to the dealers. Most customers understand the complexity of the modern car and know it would be impossible for those like myself to have leading edge equipment for all makes.
For my part I have gained experience in the Citroen hydraulic systems which many other garages locally will refuse to look at.
Between us we seem to cover most things, they do the clean plug-ins and I get the green oil down my sleeve!
David
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Yes, I guess one answer is to specialize. Better to be most things to a few customers and be good at it I suppose. Thanks for the enlightenment.
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That's only my system Growler, others may see it in a different light.
The greatest danger is when you find more time is being spent exchanging information than actually working, like now ...must get on.
David
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I'm involved in FE training the apprectices of today, and all you can expect is to give them a thorough grounding in the nuts and bolts end, and the related theory. We teach them the confidences and skills to find out and research specifics. Many come from main dealers, and will undergo their specific product training. No one can know everything, and David W has got by far the best idea in my view, and that is to specialise in something you can keep up with, and network.
The main trouble is that we get most applicants who are 'academically challenged', presumably advised from the school careers officer that with grades that low you should be a mechanic! Well I would suggest that all careers officers of this persuasion should have their ABS and engine management worked on by one of their clients.! You need a sound logical thinking skills to solve some of today's problems. There is hope for all though- we still need tyres and exhausts.
Mike
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Yes, that's what I was getting at.
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I was in my local scrapper and saw a leaflet for a local company who work for trade only. They turn up at your premisis witha Van packed with Electronic Diag kit, plug in, tell you whats wrong, if required will draw a diagram / explain how to fix or replace for a fixed fee. They do ECU, ABS, Airbag, ICE....... etc etc. 0800 number sub 4hr responce, nice little earner I would think.
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I think the answer is they specialise in a niche market. i.e. Independant VW/BMW/Volvo/etc Specialist. That way they can offer the ECU Interogation, specialist tools etc to fix the modern car. They tend to pick up the cars out of warranty - i.e. 3 years-ish old. By that time the common faults are known and toll/PC manufacturers like Sun/Mac/Snap-On have cobbled together ways around the manufacturers brick-wall.
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Sadly, a lot of them struggle, and spend a lot of time on problems, but can't obviously charge all the time to the customer. Fortunately, most of them are fairly clever, and that gets them through most problems. Other than that, they specialize, or call in specialists when required.
Part of the new block exemption from the the EU that may be coming up, is that motor manufacturers are going to have to make available all technical info, wiring diagrams etc, to anyone that asks. They will charge for it though!
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Adam and I have the benefit of up until recently at any rate being able to attend courses regarding grey areas in our knowledge. Problem is, without blowing our collective trumpets too loudly, we almost invariably know more than the lecturers! However we keep up to date by specialising only in engines and related subjects. Most manufacturers use commercially available management systems from Bosch,Lucas,Marelli,Weber and Renix/Fenix and are kitted up to deal with these systems. Plus we get a very wide spectrum of vehicles to work on and so are not blinkered by one particular Franchise. We keep in touch with our colleagues all over the country and exchange technical info regularly using other web sites sometimes. It ain't getting any easier out there and I have nothing but pity for kids starting out with the belief that Car Mechanics is an easy ride.
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I know a few easy r..........
No, sorry MBRM. I'll stop right there.
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