Hi all, need a bit of advice on getting a deposit back on a car my parents have not (yet) bought!
They saw a 2002 Renault Espace 2.2 DCi advertised locally and took a look. After a testdrive, they decided to put a deposit (£100) down on it. It was up for £8995 and was haggled down to £8400* on the promise that all that needed doing to it would be fixed. We stipulated that:
It had a new MOT, service and cambelt replacement. The A/C would be recharged and two stone holes in the rear tail lights would be repaired. Also the clutch pedal was sticky and it was agreed they would repair this. The radio code was also needed.
This was two weeks ago (Sunday 24 Jul). The car was promised to be ready for the following Thursday (28 Jul). The thursday passed and so did the Thursday after it. Last Friday, we had a phonecall saying the car would be ready for us, so Saturday we went along to pick it up.
We arrived and asked to inspect the car. The salesman was insisting that all the work had been carried out. After our initial inspection, NONE of the work bar the cambelt had been done. (I could see the cambelt had been done, the mechanic who did it had left several tools in the engine bay (Including a pair of molegrips attatched to a pulley) and some parts in the engine bay had not been re-attatched correctly!!)
The holes in the rear lights had been covered in red insulation tape. The clutch was still sticking, in fact it was now worse and the pedal would not come back from the floor on one occassion. The radio code had not been done.
An argument ensued, the salesman saying that if we got the rear lights done he would reimburse us at a later date. We insisted he telephoned a Renault dealer in our presence and order the lights himself. This he did. We agreed to give him £8000 and the balance would be paid on completion of the work.
We left a bankers draft and drove the car home. We had hardly got a mile from the car lot when the car cut out. Any attempt to give it any throttle would result it cutting out with a bang and the ECU light coming on. (It was ok on the initial testdrive.) It was able to be restarted though. We immediatly drove the car back and demanded the bankers draft back. He gave it back begrungingly. We are giving him one last chance at fixing the problems, if he has not fixed it to our satisfaction by Thursday this week we will be walking away from the deal. Here comes the sticking point, he has already said (Not explicitly though) that we are not enititled to our deposit back. We feel we are, so any advice where we stand on this?
*After agreeing on a price of £8400, he immediatly added £56 VAT for the 2 year warranty, which they advertise as free. Now I have bought used cars with warranties before and they have absorbed the price in the final agreed price, but he was having none of this...
So if anybody is thinking of buying a car from - DELETED. {No naming & shaming thankyou. DD}
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Good luck in getting your deposit back, even if you don't I can't believe you are allowing this seemingly incompetent dealer the luxury of another chance, not forgetting the small matter of handing over £8400 for the privilege.
I'd walk away now before you are trying to argue what is covered by the warranty when it all goes wrong!
MM
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I wouldn't buy this car even if the dealer did fix it.
You've seen first hand how unreliable and uncared for it is at just 3 years old, the dealer is an ass and quite clearly doesn't want to sell it.
Would you really want to go back to him with a warranty claim? Would you want to trust him put the brake pads on properly?
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Adam
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The fact is Ross that I would walk away from this car right now even if it means losing £100. It sounds like trouble all the way.
If you do decide to proceed with it I would take an RAC or AA Inspector with you and ask them to examine the car fully before you part with any money. It will be worth it.
If the garage do say they will withold your deposit. I would threaten them with trading standards and Small Claims Court.
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The thing is the car was fine when we first looked at it and drove it, there were only minor niggles such as the rear light lense which were holed. The car itself is in good condition, its just the cowboy of a dealer letting his side of the deal down. The new problem of it cutting out was most probably caused by the mechanic who changed the cambelt (Those in the know may agree with me, I think Autodata quote 9 hours for this job alone, so not a nice job).
I'm no novice when it comes to cars, I know what to look for, what is bad and what is not. When the dealer said he would sort the problems we had no reason not to believe him. (Just as a side note, the air-con does now seem to blow ice cold air so can probably presume it has had a recharge.)
Its not my deal to walk away from though, it's the parents!
Thanks for all advice so far....
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Sorry but there is no way on earth that I would personally consider buying this car. If it meant losing the deposit I'd consider that money well spent in learning how bad the garage is (although I'd be trying very hard to get the deposit back!).
A mechanic who leaves molegrips and other tools in the engine bay? Fixing rear lights with lens tape? Adding VAT onto something that is supposed to be free?
Hmmm, and garages wonder why we think Arthur Daly is alive and well and trading under another name?
Don't even think about taking this car: if you do I have a horrible feeling you will be a regular contributor to the "technical" forum.............
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How come it needs a recharge at jsut 3 years? Could something more sinister be at fault?
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Adam
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The other thing that worries me is that I've been reading about a known fault on the clutch on these engines: it may not simply be the clutch pedal but the dreaded "plastic slave cylinder problem"!!
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RUN AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Yep, I researched the problem and came to same conclusion about the clutch, but I was assured it would be rectified and so didnt worry too much about it.
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Consider the loss of only £100 a bonus. Walk away from the dealer and the car.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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I've just remembered. I read something in Technical Matters a few years ago by someone called Richard...something on about the EGR whatdyacallit on the Espace DCi. From what I remember, a lot of people had this problem and weren't too happy.
I'd consider it a blessing in disguise.
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Adam
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I'd walk away .
I'd put my reasons for so doing in writing by registered delivvery and ask for my money back and threaten to report to Trading Standards if not received in a week.
If I did not get it back, I would report them and also put a Small Claim in..
madf
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Walk away, try and get the refund, but you will only lose £100 rather than £8,500. An AA inspection costs you more than that.
Plenty of problems reported with EGR valves on all Renault common rail diesel engines - failure of a component costing a few quid can lead to a blown turbo.
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The sticking clutch pedal IS the primary symptom of the clutch slave cylinder problem. It needs a new one - not cheap to fix. thats why they havent.
The sudden cutting out with a bang sounds like the mechanic has screwed up the timing of the cam belt by a few teeth. The car has now bene run like that. For this reason alone you dump the car now, and argue about the deposit later.
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Thanks RF for confirming that symptom: my memory cells are old and battered and I couldn't quite remember ;-)
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Well it worked, just not as well as it should.
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The clutch prob starts by the pedal not springing up all the way, then it gets worse and sticks further down, then the clutch starts to bite just on the floor.
Takes about 2000 miles from first symptoms to almost un useable, Usually Ok when the clutch is warm or been pumped a few dozen times.
Its not just Espaces either.
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Yes I think it is best to walk away from this one, it would appear to have had a fairly neglected short life. Best to spend more and go to a Renault dealer where they will know the car.
EGR valves - Renault dealers are being issued with a tool to help assess the operation of these and also to clean them out. This is another reason for buying from a Renault dealer, an independent is unlikely to have this tool.
What mileage has it done, just out of interest?
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Consider it £100 well spent.
And then demand it back. All told you will then be £100 up on the deal. ;)
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It wasnt exactly naming and shaming was it....
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What did you decide to do Ross?
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