While I have been visiting the back room for a while, this is the first time I have posted, so here goes...
As my name suggests, I currently have a Nissan Primera (X reg) and have had this car for 6 months. Before that, I had a Skoda Octavia estate. Despite the fact that everybody raves about Skodas, I got rid of it because there were just so many squeaks and rattles, and they seemed to come from all over the cabin. Unfortunately, while the Primera is better, it's not perfect - and I have resorted to WD40, blu-tac etc to minimise the squeaks. Is it just me, or have the production methods of modern cars slipped, and they all rattle?
My wife is threatening divorce, as she hates going out in a car with blu-tac stuck to the windows and smelling of WD40.
I would like some advice on what car to choose next. I know this may sound silly (and even a little obsessive), but my main criteria is extremely good internal build, so minimising the chances of the dreaded rattles.
I have up to £15k to spend on a new or second-hand car. I would like it to be reasonably prestigious and very well-specced, including leather interior, climate control, alloys etc. It also needs to be reasonably roomy.
I have been thinking about a Honda Accord, and most write-ups I have seen show these to be very good cars. But I am concerned by some of the feedback on carsurvey.org, which has quite a few comments criticising the Honda for slipping build quality and squeaks and rattles.
An alternative might be a Mazda 6, but I have seen comments on these saying the ride is harsh and they are noisy. Also, some would say they are a re-badged Ford Mondeo, so why pay more for the Mazda. Plus I will struggle to get a second hand car with leather.
I am very tempted by a Lexus IS200 SE (accept this would be 2yrs old, compared to 1yr for Honda or Mazda). The Lexus always seem to do very well in surveys, but will the ride be too harsh? (Another disadvantage of the Nissan is that I feel every bump in the road!) Also, not too keen on 20,000 mile service intervals - should the oil be changed more often than this? Plus I am concerned the Lexus will be dearer to run.
Lastly, I did think about a Rover 75 / ZT - obviously a lot cheaper, but I know these are supposed to have a good ride. But I would be worried about the warranty/parts supplies.
I apologise for the length of this post, but should be very grateful for views on which of the above cars are best. Can I minimise the chances of squeaks and rattles, or do I have to accept that all cars do this? As you can see, I do favour Japanese cars for their reliability, and this explains most of the cars listed above.
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You refer in your post to most of the cars I was thinking of!
However you do not mention the Avensis. I do remember an article a year or two ago in Autocar (I think) which compared the new Avensis to the IS200. The criterion was build quality. The Toyota won hands down.
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mlj
Yes, I should have included the Avensis. I have had 2 Carinas in the past and have to say they were not the most exciting cars to drive. I noticed in the JD Power survey that the Lexus did very well, but the build quality of the Avensis was pretty average. Plus, to get leather, I would have to go for T-Spirit spec on the Avensis, which I believe would be almost as expensive as the Lexus.
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Hmmm...not driven any, and by the sounds, neither have u. So that's my tip-top recommendation.
Re: 6. In terms of new value, you won't pay more for a Mazda 6 over a Mondeo, in fact I believe most are model-for-model cheaper. It's set up to be sportier than the Ford and has a firmer ride, but I don't think my uncle describes his as 'harsh' - 'informative' I believe is the word.
Re: Lexus. The IS is due for replacement soon, so this will affect later residuals. I've sat in the back of one once, and well...I wasn't in a hurry to go back (despite the beautifully appointed interior). Fuel economy, I believe, is also quite poor.
Re: 75/ZT. The 75 has a great ride according to most ppl. The ZT handles well, and still has a relatively compliant ride. But as you say...with MGR down the toilet, who can predict the future of the cars? Residual values, will again be hit extremely hard.
Re: Accord. Seems like the best bet...I'd be looking for a CTD-i (not just cause the advert rocks). I can't say I've heard horror stories about them either; remember, that ppl who write reviews are likely to do so because they've had a really good car, or a real lemon. In most cases it's usually the latter.
Other one's you may consider, is the new Octavia...dull, but everyone seems to rave about them just lately. Perhaps a used Avensis too...very Accord-like so I'm told. (I'm ignoring the standard Mondeo/Vectra/Passat/Laguna since u said prestige, though all of these could be had in top specs, I'm sure for ur budget at a year old...)
I've noticed X-Type's (more Ford engineering) prices are dropping like a stone too. And they're not the best-built of the lot (I believe the Mazda holds that card). And while smaller perhaps a new Volvo S40/V50 shouldn't be discounted - again, I've heard good things about them.
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y2k+4
Thanks for this. I guess the point about the 6 is that, second-hand, they seem much more expensive than a Mondeo.
Can you be more specific about the Lexus - what did you not like?
I'm not sure I could justify the premium of buying the diesel over the petrol Accord, and I believe there have definitely been issues over poor fuel consumption and using oil in the diesel (which was incidentally a problem I had with my Skoda - sorry, 'characteristic' as the garage told me).
I'm not sure about the image of the X-Type, but I'll definitely think about the V50 - they look quite good.
I will take test drives, but want to narrow the list down first. Apparently you can get a 24 hr test drive on the Lexus (according to their website) but not sure if this applies to 2nd hand.
Which car do you think would have the best interior build quality / ride - so as to minimise the chance of rattles? I have noticed before that cars are completely squeak-free on a test drive, only for the noises to start after purchase!
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lol, like I said, I haven't driven any of them. And with second-hand cars sometimes half the battle against rattles is the care of the previous owner (kids pulling at trim doesn't bode too well...).
I got into the back of the Lexus (a mate's Dad's car) some years ago...nice interior, quiet, refined. Ride was okay in my opinion, but the rear space wasn't. I'm not particularly tall 5'10, but I found myself sort of orgami-ed into a position.
If I were you, my 4-strong test drive list would comprise of Avensis, Accord, 6 and V50. My mum's Toyota Celica has done 130,000 miles and still doesn't have built-in rattles (Cd-cases don't count - lol). From what I've heard the Accord is likely to have the best ride, possibly the Avensis (never even been in a current gen Avensis). My Uncle's 6 is pretty good, bit cheap inside, but no rattles at 15,000 miles.
You seem to like the Lexus, and I'd guess it's the best handler (rear-wheel drive)...but with the new one on the horizon (year or so), it strikes me the timing is just a bit...unfortunate...
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£15k would put you into a BMW 530d but it would be 3 years old and have a few miles under its belt, but these have excellent build quality and should hold their value fairly well.
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Or what about 3 yr old Merc C-Class?
The more 'prestige' names will (probably) cost more for service and repair, but at 3 yrs old you can use an Independant so shouldn't be too bad.
These cars will hold a lot of their value so overall could end up being no more expensive than 'lesser' machinery.
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Just to agree about the C class. I,m on my second and the bills for service if you use an independent are not bad. You have build quality and good ride with a car that takes all you throw at it.
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The Mazda 6 would certainly be on my test drive short list, their reliability is second to none, the body shape is very attractive and if my daughter`s Mazda 3 saloon is anything to go by, after 15k miles there is not a single rattle or squeak anywhere. The engine is so quiet at tickover, that from the driver`s seat, you need to check the rev counter to see if it is working. In fact the only fault I can level at this model (3) is insufficient lumber support. If you opt for a petrol model, all their engines are Mazda designs and far more reliable than their Ford equivalents.
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£15k would put you into a BMW 530d but it would be 3 years old and have a few miles under its belt, but these have excellent build quality and should hold their value fairly well.
I was just about to post exactly the same thing. Wonderful cars - if its too big, look at a 330d.
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Re: 6. In terms of new value, you won't pay more for a Mazda 6 over a Mondeo, in fact I believe most are model-for-model cheaper. It's set up to be sportier than the Ford and has a firmer ride, but I don't think my uncle describes his as 'harsh' - 'informative' I believe is the word.
I spent a while as a passenger in a brand-new Mazda 6, but haven't driven one. I set out disliking it, 'cos it looked far too bling from outside for my tastes, but found myself warming to it. Ended up really liking it.
I like softly sprung cars, and the 6 wasn't too firm for me. It was also quiet, the interior design very attractive: neither flashy nor boring nor wood-and-leather pseudo-posh. The only thing I found to criticise in it was that the seat felt like I was sitting on it rather than in it, and I felt liable to fall off it: maybe designed for a man? (Presumably heavier body sinks more into the seat).
Oh, and I couldn't figure out the heating controls. But I guess I might have got somewhere if I had read the labels rather than merely pushing buttons at random to annoy the driver ...
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Unless I've missed it, no-one's suggested a VW Passat or Audi A4. VW / Audi's reputation for reliablity has taken a knock recently, to some extent because of a lot of faulty coils on the 1.8T engine, in a partiular peiod of manufactire which i'm afraid I can't remember. If you look at a 1.8T check whether it was one of those in that period.
I had a Golf estate for nearly 3 years, now an Audi and no rattles from either.
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The Volvo has a stiff ride I think, more so than others mentioned and the IS200 is also stiff in the Sport model.
Maybe look for the Type-V of the last model Accord. Fully specced, well built and a lot cheaper. How about a Subaru Legacy - really well built, no rattles and something different?
--
Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Forget about image & have a look at the new Hyundai Coupe, get yourself a nice fully-specced 2.0SE on a 2004 plate for 12K, or a 2005 for just under your 15K budget - come with Five years manufacturers warranty, which you probably won't use as they are very reliable too, also hold 44% of their value after 3yrs which I think is equivalent to an Audi A3 - try one, think you'll be very pleasantly suprised
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Legacy - SE spec will get you leather, air con, cruise etc. Well built. Nice dealers. 30+ mpg. Try one.
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Many thanks to all who have replied on this thread. I had not thought about the Subaru before - will certainly add it to my shortlist.
Been to look at a Lexus IS200 this afternoon. It looks absolutely fantastic inside and out - but the saloon is just too small for my family - and the back seats don't even fold down!
I liked the Sportcross, but even that is small. It might just about be practical enough, but they are even more expensive, and not many around.
The salesman did try to sell me a brand new IS200 SE saloon for £19k, and said that they were discounting as the model is about to be replaced - but this is not much of a discount!
I thought it was interesting, though, that he was so open about the replacement. It looks like they will stop selling new IS200 soon, rather than presumably having to discount more when the new model gets closer to release.
I then went to look at an Avensis, but have to say that, after the Lexus, it was a disappointment. Clearly it's much bigger, but very plasticky by comparison.
What car is the size of an Avensis, but with the touch of luxury/prestige that you get with the Lexus, and yet still fits my budget of £15k?
I did see the posts about BMW and Merc - but not too keen on the image of both of these cars. IMO, BMW is a great car, but certainly where I live, generally driven by arrogant individuals who feel the road belongs to them (no offence intended to any considerate BMW drivers out there).
If I went for the Lexus IS200 Sportcross, do you think I should wait until the end of the year, when values might soften with the arrival of the new model? I would prefer to buy from a Lexus dealer, but will they just stop selling the old model if there is less profit margin for them?
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"What car is the size of an Avensis, but with the touch of luxury/prestige that you get with the Lexus, and yet still fits my budget of £15k?"
Audi or VW Passat, if your problem with the Avensis is that it seems plasticky.
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All these cars are pitty similar apart from the Rover, Ignore that, Lexus used to be the best but recently Honda have been getting loads of Awards.
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I still say stick to trying other cars, including the Accord. But should you still prefer the Lexus IS200 sportcross, wait until the replacement has been around a couple of months, dealers will get the surplus old-shape cars still (I'd expect) and they'll also get the people trading in their's for a new model.
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I'm surprised that you have creaks/rattles in the Primera. They are generally very well built and solid (does it have a high mileage?).
To be honest I find some examples of certain models rattle more than others. I have been in a few A4's and Passats that rattled like the devil, but then other owners say they don't have a problem.
I was in a 2002 Mondeo with 143k on the clock this week and it was quiet as a tomb inside, you'd have thought it had just rolled out of the showroom - certainly felt more solid than some MB's and BMW's at similar mileage. I think it does vary a bit from car to car, so whatever you buy, do a thorough test drive.
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You could buy a brand new Passat Highline (full leather plus loads of other toys) for about £15kish... Pretty nice cars, well built and from the few Passat taxi's that I've been in they are not squeaky or rattly(?) at all even with 50+k on the clock.
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