My sister was pulled over by traffic cops the other day for having a dirty numberplate and was given a £30 fixed penalty. After the plods had left she pulled into a service station, measured 20 metres and asked the attendant to read the numberplate. Of course there were no problems in doing so and the attendant has agreed to be a witness to this. My sister is fuming and is intending to refuse payment. If it goes to court, what is the actual regulation for this and what evidence do the police have to provide?
Keep upright
|
Pity she did not take a nice photo at the time with the BiB posing next to the number plate!
|
|
|
|
Didn't happen anywhere in the vicinity of the A74 accident by chance? Might explain what the police where doing.
|
|
|
Unfortunately your sister has no proof that she didn't partially clean the number plate before obtaining her witness - it's her word against the police and magistrates will normally take that of a police officer first unless the evidence is overwhelming.
In any case it is an offence to have an unreadable number plate, although I'm surprised that the police didn't merely issue a warning; they ignore far more serious offences 24 hours a day.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
Although the police have their fair share of jobsworths, Hitlers and facists like any other Job with some power attached, I am really not convinced they would have had the time or the inclination to knick (to the extent of raising a fixed penalty) someone with a marginally dirty number plate.
An absolutely filthy one, probably with filthy rear lights as well might attract their attention however.
|
|
Unless of course she did something else to make their whiskers twitch, and being unable to do her for that pulled the number plate gig.
|
Unless of course she did something else to make their whiskers twitch, and being unable to do her for that pulled the number plate gig.
Sorry - but the only way I can express my stance is to agree 100%
The police, like anyother group of workers has more than the fair share of fools/jobs worths/the inept/crooks/et/etc - but just to pull over a car that was in good condition, was driving appropriately and the car reg had no previous history.
I was once driving from London to Leeds in the winter with my family - it was a cold day and had been frost on the roads for many days - as a result the roads been salted several times daily and were damp - by the time we reached our destitnation without stopping - the nuber plate to the front and the rear was blacked out - I don't know what would of happened if I'd been pulled over. The rear plate was very dirty as I was drving an estate type vehicle, ie a Range Rover.
As soon as I realised what was what - I cloeaned the plates and the car lights.
|
|
|
|
Unfortunately your sister has no proof that she didn't partially clean the number plate before obtaining her witness - it's her word against the police and magistrates will normally take that of a police officer first unless the evidence is overwhelming.
This is where she needs a photo.
If that showed a plate of similar dirtiness to the car, and the witness has good grounds for recalling a time for his inspection only shortly after she was pulled, then it looks pretty convincing.
If no photo, there is a problem....
|
|
|
> Unfortunately your sister has no proof that she didn't partially cleanthe number plate before obtaining her witness - it's her word against the police and magistrates will normally take that of a police officer first unless the evidence is overwhelming. In any case it is an offence to have an unreadable number plate, although I'm surprised that the police didn't merely issue a warning; they ignore far more serious offences 24 hours a day. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
DITTO
|
|
|
|
Let me guess, i suppose that the car was reasonably clean ,but the number plates hadn't seen a sponge since summer and the Number plate would be unreable on a Gatso picture.
At the end of the day this is an offence, and best used as a leason learnt.
|
A colleague got done for this about two years ago in the North East. Having been driving across a lot of fields, the numberplate was almost completely obscured by mud.
What made it really embarrassing was that he was the regional safety advisor.
|
In a slightly different vein, I was driving home a few weeks ago along the A13 in Essex when I came up towards the rear of a small white van. I could see two bright blue lights in the back and immediately wondered what they were.
As I ventured closer the blue lights were very bright indeed, like two blue spotlights, and they completely obscured the rear number plate, which I found impossible to read, and I'm quite sure, a Gatso camera would, too, which is what they were for!
The most interesting thing was that as I became closer and eventually right behind the van, the two spotlights just became small points of blue light source. They were, in fact, blue LED's mounted in the number plate mounting holes. The perspex material of which the number plate was made was diffusing the light, to such an extent that the plate was quite unreadable at a reasonable distance.
I would be very interested to learn whether any other members of the BR have come across anything like this elsewhere. I wonder whether something like this is manufactured commercially, or did someone just have a good idea and act on it??!!!
I wonder what plod would make of the idea?
|
I wonder whether something like this is manufactured commercially, or did someone just have a good idea and act on it??!!!
Have a look on ebay. The blue lights for numberplates are widely available.
cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=...1 for example
|
|
Thanks for that, DD. Very Interesting !!!
|
|
|
|
Galaxy.
I saw the very same tonight, on a car.
H
|
|
|
|
|
I'm suprised she was allowed on her way without cleaning it.
Plod may well have video evidence of the state of the plate, so be careful if trying a defence after 'adjustment'.
Martin
|
All covered under Sectyion 43 Vejhicle Excise and Registration Act 1994:
43.?(1) If a registration mark fixed on a vehicle as required by virtue of section 23 is in any way?
(a) obscured, or
(b) rendered, or allowed to become, NOT EASILY DISTINGUISHABLE
(note these words - doesn't say unreadable),
the relevant person is guilty of an offence.
(2) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.(1000 pounds MAXIMUM - no penalty points but being looked at for obvious reasons) )
(3) In subsection (1)"the relevant person" means the person driving the vehicle or, where it is not being driven, the person keeping it.
(4) It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he took all steps which it was reasonably practicable to take to prevent the mark being obscured or rendered not easily distinguishable.
Got to agree with the other poster in thinking as it is such a humdrum offence why Plod bothered unless that bad that attention needed.
Problem of action mentioned in invoking the Service Sstation person is proving continuity - time and distance have elapsed from time of booking and test made during which time a load of other actions could have taken place. ( and no I didn't say any had been.)
DVD
|
|
|
|
|
I feel sorry for your sister being had for this very minor offence. The only thing she can do if she wishes to contest the fine is to ascertain that the police follwed the exact procedure. Do they have to measure the distance? She needs advice from someone who knows but I fear she will have to pay up...what do the Yanks say? ''Aren't your police wonderful!''
|
If she goes to court, will the police bother to defend their actions? Besides, I thought it was up to the police to prove the offence has been committed, not her to prove otherwise.
If she has a witness to say the plate could be read, then the police officer would have to disprove this surely.
Hugo
|
|
One thing to bear in mind it that the penalty is simply that - a penalty. If she goes to court and gets convicted, then it becomes - a conviction. Having a conviction has all sorts of implications which are best avoided for the sake of £30.
|
|
|
I was once stopped for the same reason. I mumbled some nonsense about being under pressure, no time to clean the car before setting out, etc. The policeman (an Inspector) replied
"It takes one minute each to wipe the plates clean sir, as you will now demonstrate." I did 'demonstrate' with my handkerchief, and he sent me on my way.
|
I know nothing about the facts of this case, and the comments below do not refer to this case, but I do have a related general comment.
Every day throughout winter, I am passed by cars that have utterly, totally and completely unreadable numberplates through the depth of dirt on the car. Now, I ask you, if I saw one of them involved in a hit and run, what would I do? It is exactly the same as driving a car with no numberplate. The Police wouldn't tolerate that, and they shouldn't tolerate this particular scam.
V
|
|
I meant to post at the weekend about the number of Really Dirty cars but forgot. I'm suppose I'm a little over-"houseproud" about my car, but some peoples' cars must *never* see a bucket and sponge, or car wash. Do they have no pride?
|
Do they have no pride?
Either they have no pride, or they think that life is too short to spend washing cars every weekend, especially this time of year :-) I have never washed my 6-month old car and I don't plan on washing it any time soon. I do at least give the numberplates a wipe with a tissue when they start to look a bit unclear though.
~J
|
...it takes me about 20 minutes to wash three cars...
Life isn't too short for a little bit of pride in personal appearance, whether it's the house, car, garden or myself...
|
|
|
|
Having an unreadable numberplate due to dirt simply draws attention to oneself (I saw one last week where the whole back of the car was covered in crud, no idea what the car colour was).
If I wanted to prevent recognition my choice would be cloned plates!
|
I must admit to being one of those people who never washes their car - the garage cleaned it at its 10K service, which will happen every 3mths!
I do occassionally wipe the plates and lights with a damp cloth to keep it relatively clear, but having a Golf means it gets dirty easily...
|
|
I just think to myself how bad to be involved in an accident with a car whose number plate you couldn't read and then drives away.
|
|
|
Won't do the paintwork much good either....:-)
Why should a Golf get any dirty more easily than any other make, which also poses the question: "If you don't clean it, how do you know?"
It's probably due to the particular colour of your Golf showing up dirt more.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
Being fair, my mate has a Mark 4 Golf and especially in this weather, the back in particular gets ridiculously dirty - even in a week.
Not an excuse I know....
--
Adam
|
|
|
Why should a Golf get any dirty more easily than any other make.
Some makes and certain models of vehicles get very dirty around the rear end due to the fact that they are not very airodynamic. My scenic 2 is particuly bad at this and in this weather and road conditions I clean the tailgate daily.
rustbucket (the original)
|
|
Without doubt hatch backs do suffer from dirt around the rear end. I need to wash my Leon's backside on a regular basis.
|
|
|
|
Any car with a large flat upright backside is going to get more dirty than an ordinary saloon. If there is nothing to smooth the exit of the air around the rear of the car a big low pressure area is formed behind that sucks all the wet and dirt onto the rear of the car.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Having an unreadable numberplate due to dirt simply draws attention to oneself (I saw one last week where the whole back of the car was covered in crud, no idea what the car colour was).
I just about saw one on the M3 tonight in the dark.
Blasting along in lane 1 or maybe the hard shoulder at about 90+, undertaking and then switching out to lane 3 to tailgate someone.
I could not determine if it had a number plate plate and the rear lights were just about visible.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Given the offences - for example , lighting ( or lack of it) , use of hand-helds, etc, - which go unpunished , this is unlucky .
I guess it's working its way up the police's list of offences to spot ; as a whole subculture is emerging about how to cheat the cameras .
Simply muddying your plate is one way, especially if you use a spray adhesive first - I understand people do this . Other favourites are having a rear cycle carrier which obscures the rear plate and not fitting an extra plate on the carrier itself- that's illegal , but you're far less likely to be in trouble for that than you are to be caught by a camera . Another one is to tow something which either has no plate on it or one from another vehicle - I reckon less than half of the trailers . generators , etc, you see being towed are properly plated to match the towing vehicle.
I'd far rather these people were getting nicked
|
Is this not all simply a question of thinking and addressing safety issues rather than just being apathetic and blaming someone else!
If a number plate is so filthy its unreadable then are the rear lights / stoplights / indicators also going to be obscured which IS a safety issue?
It is symptomatic of a 'couldnt care less attitude' to just ignore the matter. Filthy rear ends are normally an acumulation of several days neglect. There is normally a bit of a clue - like the windows and headlights are also covered in crud. And should we not then be thinking especially on a long journey "Ah the roads are filthy my lights and number plate may be obscured which is illegal and potentially dangerous, I ought to make an effort to give them a quick clean"
Does this apathy stretch to tyres, bulbs, windscreen washers, oil and water? Yes it does!
Fullchat
|
Just a thought - and I could be waaaaay off here but isnt there something in the human rights legislation to say that everyone must receive equal treatment, in which case if they were not stopping everyone with dirty plates then she was discriminated against.
Worth reading up on the rules and sending a question to the polis ?
|
|
I think that defence would result in a withering look from the magistrate and £25 added to the fine.
|
|
|
"Just a thought - and I could be waaaaay off here but isnt there something in the human rights legislation to say that everyone must receive equal treatment, in which case if they were not stopping everyone with dirty plates then she was discriminated against."
If you think that one through, then you'd have a defence against almost every offence.
"But I was in a line of traffic all doing 50mph in a 30mph zone; why was I picked on?"
"But there were hundreds of rioters; why did I get picked out and arrested?"
Etc, etc.
V
|
Yet another reason, as if one is needed why all motorists should carry a camera. Use once jobbies £2.95 from Tescos. Credit card sized digital cameras around £30 now.
Of use in many situations not least of which is potholes which damage your vehicle.
|
|
Cameras (or more specifically camera phones) are also great to take with you when buying a car from a private seller. You can discretely take their picture, should anything untoward happen, (such as the car being stolen or cloaned). With a picture, it might aid the police in catching the culprit before they do the same to someone else.
|
>>...it might aid the police...>>
There was a story in the papers recently about someone who photographed a burglar or some other form of toe rag during the act and presented the photograph to the police.
You can guess the result...
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
|
Dont tell me, the scroat's civil liberties had been infringed.
|
|
Driving along a dark A road a few years ago, I became aware of a large dark shape about 100 yards ahead. I could see no lights, but then realised it was a lorry. As I got closer, about 20 yards or so, I saw that it did have lights, but it was belching out so much black smoke that it was completely obscuring the rear lights.
|
|
|
|
|
|
