I was give the IAM Skill for Life pack as a present a while ago and have been on a number of observed runs. So far it has been well worth it and I am ironing out bad habits picked up from eight years of driving. I would certainly recommend it to anyone else.
However, while most of their suggestions seem fine, what are other BackRoomers thoughts on these two that I'm not sure about:
1. No eye contact with anyone except motorcyclists, with whom you should always try to make eye contact with.
The biker bit seems sensible, acknowledging you have seen them. I disagree with the other part though. For example, letting other people in or being let in yourself is much easier with eye contact.
2. Gears in neutral at traffic lights.
Ok for an automatic compared to park - I don't like the reversing lights of the car in front to come on when queued. Since being taught to drive, I have always put it in first to be ready to pull away at the right time. Only the last observer said I should do this and a benefit is that it wears out the clutch less. Is that true? I keep the pedal to the floor, not at biting point. Could it be the other way around as putting it in neutral means an extra up-down of the pedal?
James
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1, I wasn't told anything about eye contact, nor do I remember reading anything in Roadcraft about that.
2, Holding the clutch down wears out (i think) the release bearing. Either way, it wears something out.
I'd always select neutral and release the clutch.
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I am a current associate with the local IAM and had my pre test last week.
1. I understood that "he's seen me, I'm safe to proceed" was an important part of a commentary, and of hazard management. I suppose that's subtly different from eye contact. I haven't been told of this one and would be interested to know why.
2. Gears in neutral AND handbrake on. I don't have a problem with this one, I suspect it is to avoid the risk of foot slipping off the clutch and you lurching forward into moving traffic.
The IAM experience has taught me lots - not that I agree with it all - and I would recommend it to anyone, young or old.
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Never heard the one about not making eye contact with other drivers, every advanced instructor or book I have read on the subject promoted it as a good idea. In fact it is essential at a busy junction or nobody would ever let you out.
I alway's select neutral at lights or when stationary in queues, otherwise if you are rear ended your foot will come off the pedal and you will risk jumping forward. I do know that instructors in busy cities teach pupils to keep the car in gear when first or second in a queue, simply because a novice would take so long to react when it was time to move that they could miss their turn completely, or risk the wrath of everyone behind. I used to teach this when I worked in London, but by the time test standard was reached they were taught to select neutral and anticipate the change.
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Eye contact: A new one on me, and I can't find reference to any such comment in either my copy of Roadcraft or Motorcycle Roadcraft.
In fact, I see eye contact with any driver as an aid, and it's one of the reasons I don't like illegal heavy tint windows: You have no idea even of which way the driver's head is turned, let alone whether they are actually looking at you, or have previously seen you.
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I thought it was legal to tint all of the windows except the windscreen?
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Eye Contact with drivers actually helps me acknowldge them and verify that they have acknowledged me. This is important when at junctions etc. I often let people out in front of me and they often do the same for me.
The expression on their faces is also important. If they look daggers at you you don't mess. It's probably Borasport after his Fiesta Woman encounter:)
Neutral at traffic lights - I would agree but not to say that I do it. Particularly useful in an auto, but I don't think that clutch wear in a manual would be affected. This is an extra safety measure should your foot slip off the clutch whilst waiting at the lights.
Hugo
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Eye contact: I posted on another thread yesterday that I found, when waiting to pull out of a give-way into a queue of traffic, it's better to wait behind the line and look at the next driver approaching from the right than to nose over the line, when people will steer round you rather than let you in. I have heard the advice never to focus on an oncoming vehicle, as there is an instinctive tendency to veer towards what you're looking at.
Neutral at lights: Waiting with the clutch down, in gear wears out the clutch release bearing. Don't know if this is the case now but on some older cars this had a graphite surface.
Also, if someone rear-end shunts you, your foot will most likely be jolted off the clutch and the car might propel itself forward more than would otherwise have been the case.
As well as selecting neutral at lights etc, one should apply the handbrake too. I usually do this, but I exepect I somtimes lapse.
cheers, Sofa Spud
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> I thought it was legal to tint all of the windows except the windscreen?
I was referring to those who tint their glass to an illegally high level.
For vehicles registered after April 1985 the front windscreen must have at least 75% light transmission through it, whilst the side windows must allow 70% in. For vehicles registered prior to 1985 the figure is 70% for both the windscreen and the front side windows.
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Windows other than the windscreen can be tinted, but the minimum light transmission is laid down (I think it is 85%, but someone with VC&U Regs might like to check).
The ones you can't see into are almost certainly illegal and should fail on MOT.
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As a fairly recent member of the IAM,I too was not told to avoid eye contact,IMHO eye contact is essential when joining the road from a side junction etc.
As for leaving the car in gear at traffic lights,i have to agree that this can have unforseen consequences.
Despite not agreeing with all the IAM recommendations(eg their insistance on push-pull and not using thr car`s natural self centering)I think that the course was well worth taking if only to iron out bad habits that have crept in.
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Interesting. Motorcycling daily in London relies heavily on as much eye contact as possible... I guess in some situations direct eye contact could be seen as some sort of threat by some drivers, but as an advanced driver you will have to be the judge of the particular situation. If you've noted a young lad in a lowered/phat/wide GTi driving aggressively, what judgement would you make? Although not that relevant to car driving, when filtering through stationary traffic for instance, I'll be scanning all the time to ensure drivers have noted me in their mirrors, therby making some sort of eye contact.
On the traffic lights point, again, as an advanced driver, you will have to use your observation and planning skills to judge whether you will be sitting long enough to slot into neutral, or can you steadily roll upto the lights, slot into 1st and drive on just as the lights change, because you observed and planned ahead just right?
Joc
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RE: Push-pull.
This drives (sorry) me up the wall. Nothing more irritating than seeing a new driver trying to make a tight turn. You can see hands flying back and forth like working a shuttle and it takes ages for them to complete the turn.
With modern power steering I've never needed it - I can do nearly all things within one half turn of the wheel, so i just need to re-position my hands once. Anything else I'll probably want to do in a hurry, so go with the grab the wheel and turn it round with one hand approach.
Only thing with self-centering is that the steering on my Xsara is so light it only centres to the left, which is weird. I daresay it'll get checkout out at its next service, but all the tyre pressures etc are fine. Don't know what the fluid level is as I can't get the cap off, but it's not making any funny noises... ;)
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Nothing wrong wit push-pull, I use it myself most of the time but I cross my hands when the situation warrants it. Flexibility is more important than a rigid approach to a system, and certainly on an L test no examiner would penalise you for crossing your arms.
Letting the wheel self centre is a no-no however. You are effectively letting go of the wheel and you are at the mercy of any imperfections or obstructions on the road surface which may deflect the wheels.
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I seek eye contact whenever I'm not sure if the other driver has seen me and I'll put the handbrake on and gear into neutral if stopped for more than a few seconds. Neutral is good for preserving the clutch release bearing although how much of an issue that is with a modern car, I can't say. Automatics, handbrake on for short stops and leave in gear; avoids dazzling the driver behind with brake lights. If there's no driver behind, use the footbrake. Using the handbrake regularly keeps the mechanism in good fettle and avoids nastly shocks come MoT time when the tester discovers the cables or adjusters are siezed.
When I took my IAM test many moons ago the emphasis was on treating each driving event on its merits and taking appropriate action. Reading this thread my impression is that current IAM training has become a lot more prescriptive and leaves less room for judgement.
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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I have just passed the IAM test and I feel that I have benefitted from it. I certainly make better progress. Now that I have the test behind me I try to keep to the training and as mentioned part of it is to observe - at traffic lights I put the car in neutral with the handbrake on, I then look at the other lights to see when they are changing and select first ready for the move away. It doesn't always work and I get caught-out sometimes.
Didn't hear the one about eye contact but part of the training is the observation - has the other driver seen me? Clues can be taken from his speed or brake lights, etc.
Pull-push works for me, in general, although I do want to cross arms from time to time - particularly when parallel parking.
I think that the commentary was the best part of the whole course - I even use it whilst driving now that I have passed the test as it concentrates the mind on the driving
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1. No eye contact with anyone except motorcyclists, with whom you should always try to make eye contact with.
James,
Perhaps you could ask your instructor to explain this; apart from where there is conflict/aggresion present it's counter to most contributors view and experience and seems to have little evident merit.
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Watching the other lights is not a good idea as you should be looking at what is going on infront of you. Surely your amber light gives you plenty of notice to engige firth the on the green proceed into the area/box you have been previuosly observing. I have seen several instances where drivers ahve clearly been wathing an opposing set of lights and on the green have gone across there own amber or even red light into the flow of traffic. Traffic lights are becoming more adaptive to time of day traffic flow etc and you do not want to get into the habit of wathing opposing lights. Congratulations on you AIM
Test. Regards Peter
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Just read that. Some good typos there.
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Yes, you are quite right - I use the lights as a clue together with the movement of other traffic - if it is slowing then there is a good chance that their lights have gone to red. It wasn't quite clear that as a driver I expect to wait a certain length of time before the lights go green and I use that time checking the way ahead is clear, etc. and then use the opposing lights to get ready. One example from last week was I was sitting at a red light with the all gone to red just before mine went to green I saw blue flashing lights ahead - no sirens. I waited at the green and the oncoming cars made way for a police van. The other thing is to look both way before crossing at traffic lights even on green just in case someone has jumped the red or has gone on the opposite green!
On the observed runs I was told to check around the car whilst stationary for things such as pedestrians approaching the junction and cyclists approaching from behind that could squeeze between me and the kerb. Then before moving away check again.
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Although the IAM do insist on push-pull steering all the time, I think what's really important is that you steer "neatly". Most of the time push-pull does this for you, but (as suggested) when parallel parking, for example, sometimes there's a better way.
What they want to avoid is what I have seen some people do, which is to get their arms in a complete flap when turning a corner (often much too fast and braking around the corner - e.g. off a fast road roung a very tight corner) and the whole lot becomes a panic affair.
Although there are exceptions (show me a driving "rule" where there are't!), most of the time push-pull steering makes your drive more graceful, in my opinion.
-Mark
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Exactly Deryck, you should be checking around you and the traffic flow you will be entering into Not the opposing set of lights. This is particularly ill advised when in a districk you are familiar with the sequence and you can get caught off guard so do not get into this bad habit. What is important is your position, your lights, any approaching threat i.e. a light jumper and the traffic/box you are about to enter. Stay Safe. Regards Peter.
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I was told I could do anything I wanted to (with regards to steering inputs) when parking, as long as I was in full control of the vehicle and at a v low speed.
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My push-pull and not changing gear on a corner are improving but neutral when stopped is one of the habits I keep forgetting to change. It seems from these posts that I ought to. However, it was only the last run (of 5) that it was mentioned.
The eye contact issue was also only mentioned by one person. The reason given for not making eye contact with other four-wheeled motorists was to avoid agression or potential road rage situations.
I certainly think it depends on the situation. I avoid looking at people at traffic lights where there is more than one lane, to avoid them thinking I might want to race. However, in my example at the top, at junctions I think it's far safer with eye contact.
James
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Don't know about IAM, but my regular driving instructor said that I should leave the car in first, foot on clutch and handbrake on. When I expressed concern for his release bearing, he said that I had to do it on the DSA test so might as well get in the habit now. This was less than a year ago, so as far as I know it is a current test requirement.
I had been driving for 17 years prior to his instruction and taking my UK test and I would never have left my car in gear for the reasons previously listed, so that was one (of many) driving habits I had to break in order to get my UK license. I debated getting professional instruction before taking my test, but after learning what was required I am very glad I did take the lessons.
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... my regular driving instructor said thatI should leave the car in first, foot on clutch and handbrake on.
Mine too. In fact I was encouraged to engage first gear as soon as I'd stopped and before applying the handbake. I passed my test doing this and it certainly wasn't commented on. I didn't realise that it was considered a bad habit until I made my first post on this site (www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=12463 ).
That said, I'd be surprised if it's a requirement of the test. Following the previous discussions here, I now suspect that instructors encourage pupils to do this because they don't want rear collisions caused by pupils failing to move off when drivers behind expect them to.
I know you do fail the test for not using the handbrake in this situation but that's a separate discussion.
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... my regular driving instructor said that >> I should leave the car in first, foot on clutch and >> handbrake on.
It is certainly NOT a requirement on the test, but the product of lazy instruction from someone who wants an easy time without having to worry about your being ready when the lights change.
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"the product of lazy instruction from someone who wants an easy time without having to worry about your being ready when the lights change."
Possibly, but I doubt he was worried about my being ready at lights. At the first lesson I told him of my driving experience and he had me do a bit of "pre-lesson" driving to suss out my skills or lack thereof. I always had first selected when the lights went red/yellow and pulled away on green without undue hesitation. Of course this is not to say that he was correct in stating that I *had* to leave it in first on the test or that my assumption that it is a requirement was correct.
My step-daughter was doing her lessons also (I used to take her out in my car for practice...sometimes on the same days I had my own driving lesson, surreal, huh?) and her regular instructor told her to do the same thing.
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>I used to take her out in my car for practice...sometimes on
>the same days I had my own driving lesson, surreal, huh?
Are you allowed to do that, then, if you didn't hold a UK license? (I don't know the answer by the way - it's not a rhetorical question.)
-Mark
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As far as I know, my US license is a full driving license here in the UK for the first year living here, meaning no restrictions that a provisional license would have. I don't know of any rules stating that the accompanying driver had to have UK license.
If you haven't figured out by my answer, the truth is, I don't know for sure.
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I don't know of any rules stating that the accompanying driver had to have UK license.
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see dvla web site -
"Learner drivers must be supervised. To supervise a learner driver you must be at least 21 years old and have held a full EC licence for the appropriate category of vehicle for at least 3 years. Anyone who does not comply with these requirements could be liable to a maximum fine of £1,000, discretionary disqualification or 3-6 penalty points (as could the learner driver)."
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Thanks Dalglish, I didn't know it had to be an EC license.
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My regular driving instructor, an ex-police driver told me to leave the car in first gear, foot on the clutch, handbrake on when I was first in the queue at the lights. If I wasn't first, he told me to go into neutral.
In my opinion, this gives the best of both worlds. You can get away from the lights without having to reach for first gear, but giving the drivers behind plenty of time to engage first. Also, if you get shunted from behind, there's no car in front, so no harm in staying in gear.
Starting IAM in a few weeks, so maybe my view will change.
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The eye contact issue was also only mentioned by one person. The reason given for not making eye contact with other four-wheeled motorists was to avoid agression or potential road rage situations. I certainly think it depends on the situation. I avoid looking at people at traffic lights where there is more than one lane, to avoid them thinking I might want to race. However, in my example at the top, at junctions I think it's far safer with eye contact.
The aggression thing is certainly valid - the other reason I was given on an Advanced Driver course was that you can't *always* be sure that you've made eye contact - the other driver may be looking towards you but still not registered your presence.
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Try the following from the Worcestershire Advanced Motorists for useful information
tinyurl.com/59lv8
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