business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9067-1316612...l The above link is another view of what's going on at Halewood.
This is mainly about the new 6-speed transmission line at Halewood.
Jag production is in a poor way - difficult to see matters improving in the short term. They need some new models. The Americans have twigged that its basically a Mondeo/Contour and aren't buying.
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Shame, esentially it is a good pacakge. The only reason I wouldn't buy one is because of its weak visual impact especially at the front end, it looks.......er......just limp. Mind you I bought a 5 series, may not be pretty but it has a strong visual impact.
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A great shame when you consider what a good and innovative car the new XJ is. Actually, the X-type is a pretty good first stab at the compact exec market but the styling is far too reactionary and scaled-down in appearance - a real problem in a sector where image matters so much.
It's this rather than the shared Mondeo DNA that would put me off considering one (and I suppose at 30 I'm in their target demographic). Not a mistake they can afford to repeat for the next generation.
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Having had the opprotunity to drive both a new X-type and a Mondeo I am not sure what the X-type offers for the extra cash. IMHO the Mondeo is a sharper drive - it has maybe a little more wind noise from the back, but feels to have quite a bit more room inside for some reason. Again, IMHO the X-type is 'stylised' rather than styled.
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Is the X-type really as bad as the Mondeo? Is the driving postion as skewed?
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Is the X-type really as bad as the Mondeo? Is the driving postion as skewed?
As bad as the Mondeo? The Mondeo is an excellent car.
I really don't see why people have a problem with the fact that the X-Type is built in the Mondeo platform. After all, nobody seems to care that the Audi TT is based on the same platform as the Skoda Octavia.
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>> Is the X-type really as bad as the Mondeo? Is the >> driving postion as skewed? As bad as the Mondeo? The Mondeo is an excellent car. I really don't see why people have a problem with the fact that the X-Type is built in the Mondeo platform. After all, nobody seems to care that the Audi TT is based on the same platform as the Skoda Octavia.
Yes, but the TT is in an entirely different market to the Octavia. The X-type and Mondeo are both 4-door 4/5 seaters. There's nothing exactly 'wrong' with the X-type, but why would you buy one when you could have a Mondeo which does the same job probably slightly better. It has to boil down to the Jag brand and the styling - neither of which are strong (all IMHO, of course).
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Yes, but the TT is in an entirely different market to the Octavia. The X-type and Mondeo are both 4-door 4/5 seaters. There's nothing exactly 'wrong' with the X-type, but why would you buy one when you could have a Mondeo which does the same job probably slightly better. It has to boil down to the Jag brand and the styling - neither of which are strong (all IMHO, of course).
I don't know, I certainly wouldn't.
But then you can apply the same arguement to, say, the Audi A4. Why would you buy one of these when the Passat is cheaper?
I really dont see the relevence of the fact it platform shares with Mondeo.
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>>I really don't see why people have a problem with the fact >>that the X-Type is built in the Mondeo platform. After all, >>nobody seems to care that the Audi TT is based on the same >>platform as the Skoda Octavia.
Jaguar was always seen as an individual manufacturer, it's styling and engineering stamped with the personality of Sir William Lyons and his friends long after their departures.
VW re-invented itself just in time in the mid 70's, saved by the Golf after earlier, less successful, toes dipped in the front-drive watercooled market. The Audi-VW-Seat-Skoda set up seems to work because the images are close enough together. VW: Solid, sensible cars; Audi; upmarket executive cars sharing VW technology; Seat: sportier VW-based brand; Skoda: budget VW-based brand with a bit of flair.
Before VW took over Audi it was a subsidiary on Daimler-Benz, making saloon cars that slotted in below the cheapest Mercs. Seat previously built Fiats under licence, followed by a short association with Porsche. Skoda, well everyone knows what they were like before VW came along!
Cheers, Sofa Spud
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? Is thedriving postion as skewed?
One thing Ford have managed to do over the decades is get the pedals, seat , steering wheel all in a perfect line. To say the position is skewed is quite frankly the well used BR word, cobblers.
Take a drive of a '83 to 92 Nova to see what a real skewed driving position is.
HEAR HEAR! Mr Rodgers BTW.
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The Jaguar range looks dated. Not sure why anyone would want to buy an old man's car. For the same money you can driver Mercs, BMW, Lexus and Audis. If its the engine you are after just get the Mondeo second hand.
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I wonder if it's partly due to the fact that there wasn't a diesel model from the start? Same with the S type. Although excellent diesels are now available, maybe this delay cost them.
Are CityRover sales really dying? I've seen a fair number on the road. I did read in one of the car magazines that Rover were trying to get Tata to lower the price and/or raise the specification.
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There isn't much wrong with the X-type but there's so much on the market that people would rather have.
City Rover sales last month were just under 700, (very poor for September). Even the Indian press says the Indica/City Rover is poor quality so there's little hope for it, I've seen quite a few around here (near Longbridge) and only 1 panda & 1 Picanto.
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Platform sharing has been around since beginning of time and is a fact of automobile engineering life especially in the current climate.
It's going to stay so the cynics better get used to it.
The bottom line is the Mondeo and X type are related.. Who cares?
They are products that are quite individual in their own rights.
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Platform sharing has been around since beginning of time and is a fact of automobile engineering life especially in the current climate. It's going to stay so the cynics better get used to it. The bottom line is the Mondeo and X type are related.. Who cares? They are products that are quite individual in their own rights.
Well, I cared enough to consider the X-type as my ideal car, but ended up being completely put off by shared elements and compromises.
I thought in the right colours and trim the X-type looks fantastic at first glance, and was looking forward to the drive. I drove the diesel and although it drove well it just didn't feel right. Everything felt lightweight and built down to a price. The grain pattern on the dash plastics felt cheap, and Ford parts-bin switchgear put me off. I expected a weightier feel to a Jaguar, and wanted quality that was more than skin deep, but it just didn't feel like a 'proper' Jag to tempt me.
There's no doubt it's a very good car but the brand has been diluted and too many compromises made. Image is very important and I couldn't help anticipate the jibes of it being just a Mondeo underneath. Even as a used buy it suffers because of the fear of high servicing costs at a prestigious Jag main dealer, and surely you can't get it serviced at a Ford dealer dealer can you?!
I think the basic problem is that the X-type sends out confusing messages to potential buyers who end of plumping for something that's a safer bet.
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Two points.
I think that the X type suffers simply because the Mondeo is such a good car and those who knock it just don't know what they are missing.
Secondly, the X-type had to be something special - remember they're trying to corner a part of the market that Jaguar (as far as I can recall) has heretofore not bothered with. Unless their product is going to have that 'wow factor' then they're going to have difficulty. I'm afraid the Jag just doesn't do it for me.
Splodgeface
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Keep it up, keep it up. I can hear the whistle of diving residuals as this thread continues. When these get to Mondeo money at 3 years old (and they will at this rate) I'll have one.
:o)
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The Mondeo chassis is indeed a class act and anyone put off by X-type simply by the fact of this platform share is clearly daft. I've thought the saloon visually weak but was impressed enough by what they'd managed with the estate to test drive the diesel SE. The engine was very smooth and punchy, scared the hell out of the wife with the overboost, comfy ride, maybe too comfy, nice leather seats as standard. What scared the hell out of us more was the quality of the dash and the switchgear which looked and felt cheap and mismatched. The centre console was particularly gruesome looking like it was lifted wholesale out of a Metro.
When you see what Audi, BMW (with recent exeptions), Skodas and even upcoming Fords can do with interiors, this is just throwing away sales for the sake of an internal makeover, oh and might as give it a new nose with attitude. Pity, because otherwise a good car, but I'm not biting.
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Platform sharing has been around since beginning of time and is a fact of automobile engineering life especially in the current climate. It's going to stay so the cynics better get used to it. The bottom line is the Mondeo and X type are related.. Who cares?
Well, potential customers seem to care and therefore so should Jaguar if they wish to stay in business.....
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First it's Rover now Jaguar,,
I don't understand why backroomers are so critical of these two marques. Yes they're both having difficulties but am I alone in sticking up for them?
C'mon everyone in the Backroom..
Be a bit more positive and less critical.I'm sure none of you would want to see the either of them folding.
Remember if it wasn't for Ford there would be no Jaguars at all.
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