I have a quick question which I hope someone may be able to help with. I've scoured the forum and can't find anything directly relating to this (but have found some other useful info which may be relevant).
Mrs. K is a full time housewife, which means that she only drives about 4k-5k miles per year. She tries not to use the car when at all possible, but most of her trips are short journeys - typically 2/3/4 miles.
Once per week she does a long run - about 10 miles or so.
We currently have an Alfa 146, but I'm worried that the short journies that she does will damage the engine/gearbox long term - as it never gets a change to warm up at all. The battery seems to keep its charge ok - so I assume the weekly long-run keeps it ticking over.
I thought the answer was obvious - change it for a small diesel - but this would not seem to be the right answer.
I should stress that she does only use the car when really needed (she does a lot of local work for the school, parish council, church, etc).
I was thinking of changing it for an older automatic (93-onwards).
Should I go for a petrol or a diesel? I should stress I'm not worried about running costs - so the 'diesel-savings' are irrelevant - plus it's only 5k miles per year.
Am I being too paranoid about potential engine damage?
many thanks in advance,
K
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Most journeys that my wife drives are between 3 and 5 miles, with only a few of up to 30 miles, so I make sure that we periodically swap cars. She takes 'our' (TIC!) V70, and I give her 306 a decent motorway run or spirited cross country trip. This treatment seems to work, too, because when we purchased the 14k miles / 8 year old 306 1.8 petrol from the estate of the previous elderly owner, there was 'mayonnaise' in the filler cap recess and crank case breather. I cleaned it out, and two years later, it's not returned. Now at ten years of age, the car is as fit as a fiddle, and has negligible oil consumption.
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If the Alfa is reliable you might as well keep it. Even if your usage results in an engine life of 50k miles then that's 10 years worth. :-)
Perhaps you could borrow the Alfa once a week to give it a bit of a run out?
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For a regime of unavoidable short journeys, I'd go for an old diesel -- old enough and cheap enough not to matter very much if it eventually suffers terminal decline because of the short-trip factor. Even then, I would ensure that it gets an Italian tune-up once a week.
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More frequent oil and filter changes will also help - perhaps every three months.
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What's for you won't pass you by
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"I was thinking of changing it for an older automatic (93-onwards)."
But if you go for pre-92 you can get a cat-free car - one less pricey thing to worry about.
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my last few bangers all without cats:
-93 Xantia TD
-95 Rover 115 SD
-95 Fiesta 1.8D
I don't think a car built after 92 necessarily needs a cat.
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To follow up richy306dturbo's posting, some Rover models in the early 1990s used Peugeot/Citroen diesel engines.
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What's for you won't pass you by
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I agree that such low mileage/short journeys are not in the car's best interests, but the risks presented by the purchase of an old used car are potentially for more damaging to you bank balance.
I'd work on the with the theory that the cheapest car is the one that you already own. Take the advice about Italian tuning and frequent oil changes that others have already given.
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I, unfortunately, am an expert in very short journeys:-).. all undertaken by my wife over the past 20 years. She has driven 3-4,000 miles a year in a selection of cars with an average journey length of 1-1.5 miles.
In a petrol car - with fuel injection - it will run rich (cold) all the time. Expect exhausts to last 3 -4 years, engine sto carbon up and the thing to misfire if it is not driven once a week at least 10 miles. Expect disks to rust and corrode cos they never dry out/are sued hard enough to rmove rust.
In a diesel you just use more diesel, exhausts last longer but the same comments apply on disks.
If it\'s an old car and has not been well maintained, such use is a recipe for bore wear. If badly worn already, prenmature death.
A catalyst will die quickly under these conditions.
We change the oil and filter once a year: seems to be adequate .
Fron tyres wear quickly - scrubbing whilst parking.
Any car without power steering gets tiring used like this.
Badly protected cars rust.. they never dry out. If you don\'t cover any vulnerable bits with waxoil/similar it will rust to bits.. If it\'s garaged it is just as bad.
Batteries take a pounding in winter.. you need a charger for the times when it gets undercharged.
madf
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I don't think a car built after 92 necessarily needs a cat.
I thought it was a legal requirement from '92 on. Not so??
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>> I don't think a car built after 92 necessarily needs a cat. >> I thought it was a legal requirement from '92 on. Not so??
Not for a diesel.
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I think I'd just keep it and give it a good blast once a week. Anyway - might the change of car cost you a fair bit in terms of depreciation etc?
You never know - keep it for a few years and someone might pay over the odds for a "low mileage, one lady owner Alfa 146"!!!
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I had a renault 5 'L' reg with 105k miles on it when I got it. Did 5 miles a day for five years with maybe a 20 mile trip a couple of times a month. Parked outside. Changed oil and filter once a year. New front disks every 18 months. Exhaust tail box each year. New rear brake pipes once. Domestos once a year to try to stop the moss growing in the window rubbers. No mechanical problems. Flogged it a couple of years ago for 450 quid with a years MOT.
A short distance diesel will hammer a batter more than petrol.
Martin
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Thanks everyone for all the responses.
It's greatly appreciated.
I think the ideal bottom line would be to get a pre-catted petrol car and give it a good run every weekend, and changing the oil every 3-4 months.
As FrostBite said : no cat = 1 less thing to worry about.
I do honestly think the Alfa will go, as it's a manual and Mrs K wants the convenience of an auto, and something a bit more luxurious - as opposed to sporty - and something a bit solid - as it's to transport K Junior around too (otherwise I would just get an MR2 and be done with it).
The next debate is which one? ... something which I won't go into here.
For reference - possibly a 3-series Beemer, Honda Accord or Civic, or Merc 190e.
And for MadF - a very useful list of points - most of which I had not considered.
Thank you all again, and I look forward to contributing to future discussions.
Regards,
K
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Of all your options K, the most reliable will the Accord Auto. Getting a 1992 model will be hard though as many are now bought for minicabs - mine was a few years ago. I think they were at one time the most reliable car ever made.
My parents have just sold two Hondas from 1991. An Accord 4WS and a Civic Shuttle Auto. Neither had required any work at all other than regular servicing and were snapped up by the first people to see them. Accord had a Cat, but the Shuttle did not.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Espada III,
Thanks for that. I used to have a 92 K Civic, and Mrs K a 2000 Accord Type V - so they are top of my list.
Plus we have a main dealer not to far away. Admittedly we also have a Beemer main dealer on the doorstep - so the benefit there is cheap servicing/labour/parts under the 4+ scheme.
Thanks again.
K
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Have a look at the 'pre-ugly' Scorpios - they are 90% automatics and can be 2.0-2.9 litre, with lots of toys.
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What you want is max bang for your buck: preferably diesel with no catalyst.
A citroen ZX diesel has 1.9 diesel (as in 406/306 etc) conventional suspension, zero looks and good rustproffing. For £2,000 you could get a superb low mileage MINT example. Or a 1.4 petrol one for a lot less.
Zero street cred tho...
madf
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Zero street cred tho...
Which is precisely what makes them cheap.
Street cred is an expensive extra when buying s/h, tho it is what some folks want
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Street cred is an expensive extra when buying s/h, tho it is what some folks want
It's a question of what you need the car for, NW.
Just like clothes really. To pop round the supermarket, jeans and a T-shirt are fine. But I couldn't turn up at a client dressed like that and then ask them to pay me £zillions per hour.
So, my suits cost more than comfy clothes. And my car costs more than a zero-cred machine (to coin a phrase!).
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It's a question of what you need the car for, NW.
True. But if it's a posh image you're after, an oldish s/h car ain't really going to do it anyway, unless it's particularly unusual.
Just like clothes really. To pop round the supermarket, jeans and a T-shirt are fine. But I couldn't turn up at a client dressed like that and then ask them to pay me £zillions per hour.
I think that's horses for courses: it depends what line of business you are in.
Some fields require a lot of conformity, though that doesn't always mean smart. In a lot of the media business, the only people who wear suits are the folks who come to fix the photocopier or the lawyers who haggle over the contracts.
Others are much less conformist, but even in more uniform environments there's always the old rule of fashion -- that if you break the rules, you need to know what you're doing and do it thoroughly. So a ten-year-old Citroen might do better among the Mercs than a four-year old Mondeo.
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>>So a ten-year-old Citroen might do betteramong the Mercs than a four-year old Mondeo.
Interesting point NW
Made a mistake in selling the Volvo for SWMBO's Hyundai. Am driving her CRV which is very uncomfortable. So want to replace it with something else. Don't want to spend much dosh so had thought of older machine which would render me invisible on the car radar.
If I drive a Mondeo I would be an unsuccessful surveyor; if I drive a recent exec car, I'm doing alright if not well; if I drive a flashy car like patently (Sorry!), I'm charging too much for my clients, but if I drive a ten year old Accord, it just wheels and I *patently* have better things to spend my money on!
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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If I drive a Mondeo I would be an unsuccessful surveyor; if I drive a recent exec car, I'm doing alright if not well; if I drive a flashy car like patently (Sorry!), I'm charging too much for my clients, but if I drive a ten year old Accord, it just wheels and I *patently* have better things to spend my money on!
Well, I guess that patently's choice of wheels works amongst his clients, or else he wouldn't be able to afford to replace it!
(Unless, of course, he just parks it around the back to avoid offence ...)
But it ain't always so. I was looking for a new boiler last year, and rang around for quotes. Before he even got in the door, I knew that the guy driving a shiny new Audi was going to be insanely expensive, and I was also right in my assesment that probably wouldn't know his stuff. I only let him in because I thought it would be amusing to have my hunch confirmed.
In the end, I think that a lot this image stuff comes down to confidence. It takes a certain amount of self-confidence to opt out of the status-race, and it probably wouldn't work if you feel personally devalued by having cheap wheels.
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In our case I think our most important factor is that of safety, as Mrs. K transports K junior around (3 years old).
So need something safe and solid. Reliabilty is not a major factor (we drive an Alfa at the moment !).
So really a 5 door hatch/estate fits all the criteria.
Flashy car does not work for us - waste of money 'for show' purposes only, keeping up with the Jones', etc .... particularly where we live in Sunningdale - we'd need to some way (and expense) to keep with the local Jones'.
She's a housewife - so "wow" factor not required - just something with a good spec (auto, leather, air con), 5 door or estate and not TOO big in size.
Following on from a lot of the comments above re: newish flashy car v's Mondeo, etc, etc ..... and turning up at customers - remember there's also the perception that perhaps you are sensible and reliable - not a bad thing - particularly if they are going to invest in you.
Just my tuppence worth.
K
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