Get a Passat 130 PDI it is much much better than a Mondeo. My Passat is three years old and nothing repeat nothing has gone wrong with it. There are plenty of used Passats at main dealers at quite low prices. If you buy one you will be delighted with the fuel consuption and the quality of the car. VWs are ten times better than Fords, and the VW dealer in Derby is thirty times better than the Ford dealer.
Why is it that whenever we have a thread along the lines of "what is your experience of x" somebody always comes along and tells you to buy "y"?
Your remark that VWs are ten times better than Fords is based on your misguided perception of the VW badge and all it stands for. In Germany people are deserting VW in droves and switching to Focus and Mondeo because of tangible quality differences. Just ask ADAC.
As for dealer quality, a search of this site will show you countless people who are totally fed up with their VW dealer, just as it will show similar experiences for Ford, Mercedes, Alfa, BMW......
If you don't have anything useful to say on the subject of the Mondeo, probably better you don't post at all.
No Dosh - Backroom Moderator
mailto:moderators@honestjohn.co.uk
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Oh, and no, I don't own a Ford.
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I have owned many Ford cars, vans and tractors. I used to love and recommend Ford cars to my friends.
However, my experiences recently have made me change my mind. I will not bore you with my recent stories of Focus troubles.
I have no perception of the VW badge, I once had a terrible Golf Mk2. I know that they are a peoples car.
I just know that my Passat is the most reliable car that I have owned.
On the subject of the Mondeo I think that it will depreciate alot faster than the Passat.
Please do not tell me what to say, I think that went out with Hitler.
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On the subject of the Mondeo I think that it will depreciate alot faster than the Passat. Please do not tell me what to say, I think that went out with Hitler.
Maybe it will, but then that allows you to buy a late used one for a lot less than a late used Passat. As for telling you what to say, your original post was completely unhelpful and off topic. You are a VW bore, always praising the 100% reliability whilst blindly ignoring the experiences of many others. Funny that you should make a remark about Hitler under the circumstances.
See ya.
No Dosh - Backroom Moderator
mailto:moderators@honestjohn.co.uk
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Before the new 53 plate Mondeo, I had a Passat 1,8T Sport and a Golf GTi 1.8T before that (obviously both petrol). Had lots of problems with both:
1. Golf needed new gear box from day one.
2. Passat needed new turbo charger on day one. Sounded like a fighter jet taking off.
3. Passat needed two door locks changing in first few weeks because of known problems on Passat door locks.
4. Air con failed within 2 years on Passat and replaced air con unit under warranty.
5. Air bag warning light came on Passat after about 3 years and spent weeks off road and in the end they simply bypassed some wiring and hoped for the best. It never returned before it was replaced with Mondeo
6. Never did find source of noises in dash board
7. Wind noise around driver door at head height (finally found to be hole in driver's mirror) took months to sort.
So don't assume VW = reliable. If you look at reliability index you will be surprised (I was) that Ford is generally above VW.
Rob
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I work in the motor industry and know some of the engineers who worked on the TDCi development. I previously posted some info on the TDCi's but got 'shouted down' by a few 'armchair experts' who apparently knew more.
Anyway, there have been lots of problems with the TDCi's using the Delphi systems and Ford engineers where flying back and forth to La Rochelle tyring to sort out the manufacturing problems.
I think if you buy a new one now you will be fine; but avoid buying anything made before the Autumn of 2003. The engine is under continuous development and I believe a new version will come out (shared with Pug.) in 2005, probably using a new injection system supplier on at least some of the variants.
If you get a good one they are a cracking vehicle and I would choose one over and above the Passat.
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Didn't shout you down Aprilia; mine is not a loud voice...merely asked you to be rather more up front about your sources, which you did, and that was very interesting and helpful.
I still maintain that these 'problems' are nothing greatly unusual in a new production vehicle. You say Ford are doing something about it (that's positive) and the volume of concerns has greatly diminished to a level which I perceive to be increasingly insignificant in comparison with other cars. I know very little about what happens under the bonnet of my car, but am a pretty confident statistician.
It would be useful to know of other anecdotes regarding marques which have presented teething problems and for which engineers had to do alot of work to put right.
Splodgeface
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had mondeo tdci 53 plate, had it for 6 months and put on 30K miles. absolutly faultless. driving position great im 6'1. no problems wotso ever. fast as hell, great sterring feel. quiet, but great noise when pushed.
so good im buying a jag X-type 2.0dse estate zircon with 18"
it has mondy chassis & engine, (with a bit al'o'jag breathed upon it) but nice lines, and georgous interior. (added jag voice&satnav&mem seats.)+ my bro-in-law works at coventry, development, so i had 10% discount
otherwise, i really must admit all mondys i have had over last 5 years (company cars) i had 4 all in all. loved em all. better than lagunas, old & new, (kept breaking down). And vectra was too hard a ride.
thats my 5cents worth. ;-)
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I have seen plenty of TDCis (Mondeo and Focus)chucking out clouds of black smoke, even 03 reg. examples. I drove one about 18 months ago and, whilst I like several aspects of the Mondeo, the TDCi is not a smooth, quiet engine like the PSA HDIs.
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"Plumes of black smoke" syndrome is now fixed under warranty by a replacement EGR valve - Mondeo owners website has lots of references to this and of its success.
Regarding smoothness, that's just a matter of opinion, and I, like you have driven both. Both very good and the TDCi is very much as good as if not better than the HDI. We must agree to disagree!
Splodgeface
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>>whilst I like several aspects ofthe Mondeo, the TDCi is not a smooth, quiet engine like the PSA HDIs.
LOL! The 2 litre PSA HDi and the 2 litre TDCi are the *same engine* !! They are built at Tremery (sp?) in northern France (as is the 1.6 PSA and Ford DID's). Eventually all PSA and Ford DID's will be common, just with different names and possibly different injection systems. I believe that the Pug. uses Siemens and the Ford uses Delphi a the moment, but that could soon change (it may have already). I have also heard talk of Ford using NipponDenso too.
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Only the 2.0 TDCI in the C-Max is the same as the 2.0 HDI 136 in the 307 and 407.
The Mondeo engine is different, as is the Focus TDCI to anything to come out of France.
Considering that the 2.0 HDI 90 and 110 engines are 6 years old now, and havent seen any major changes since the Xantia, they are very good and reliable engines.
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I was referring to the old range of HDI engines (and should have said so) and not the new 2.0 HDI, which is now in the 407 and 307. I have no experience of the new engine, but it would surprise me if it was the same engine. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the TDCi has been in the Mondeo and Focus for longer than Peugeot have been putting the new HDIs in their cars. The new 2.0 HDI is not currently used in any Citroen, only the 1.6 HDI, which is in the Picasso. Was the new 2.0 HDI ever put into the 406 before the 407 replaced it? I don't think it was, which would mean the 407 and/or the 307 were the first to get it and that would be a fair while after the TDCi was first introduced by Ford.
I would be surprised and disappointed if PSA ever produced a diesel that was not smooth and quiet.
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>>I would be surprised and disappointed if PSA ever produced a diesel that was not smooth and quiet.
My neighbours 406 diesel sounds like a tractor.
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Is it an HDI? The old Turbo Ds do have the general diesel rattle when idling, particularly when cold, however, they are quiet and smooth when on the move. I have been in a number of PSA HDIs and they are remarkably smooth and quiet at speed.
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>>Is it an HDI? The old Turbo Ds do have the general diesel rattle when idling, particularly when cold, however, they are quiet and smooth when on the move. I have been in a number of PSA HDIs and they are remarkably smooth and quiet at speed.
Its an 'R' reg, it sounds like a tractor hot or cold
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My neighbours 406 diesel sounds like a tractor.
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Is it an HDI? The Turbo Ds do have the familiar diesel rattle when idling, particularly when cold, but that soon disappears when the car is on the move. I have been in several HDIs and they have all been remarkably quiet and smooth, particularly at high speed
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Sorry that I have posted the above message twice, I thought the first attempt had failed.
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I am pretty certain that the 1.6 and 2.0 TDCi's C-Max's were PSA/Duratorq from the start.
The latest Euro IV Mondeo 2 litre will be this PSA/Ford engine as well. In fact the Mazda 6 also uses it, albeit with different ECU.
In fact pretty much all Ford Diesels are now PSA/Ford co-productions, including the Dagenham built 2.7 V-6. The only non-PSA ones are the ones fitted in RWD vehicles (Transit).
The PSA HDI had a bit of a redesign in early 2003, IIRC.
Anyway, I am seeing a Ford UK Diesel designer late this week, so I will double check all the facts.
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I am pretty certain that the 1.6 and 2.0 TDCi's C-Max's were PSA/Duratorq from the start. The latest Euro IV Mondeo 2 litre will be this PSA/Ford engine as well. In fact the Mazda 6 also uses it, albeit with different ECU. In fact pretty much all Ford Diesels are now PSA/Ford co-productions, including the Dagenham built 2.7 V-6. The only non-PSA ones are the ones fitted in RWD vehicles (Transit). The PSA HDI had a bit of a redesign in early 2003, IIRC. Anyway, I am seeing a Ford UK Diesel designer late this week, so I will double check all the facts.
Aprilia, are you now saying that it is only the latest Mondeos that will have the new 2.0 PSA/Ford engine? This would support my belief that the earlier TDCi was a different engine.
Can anyone confirm when the new 2.0 HDI became available in the 307?
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Right, let's straighten this out for you all...
In Dagenham, Ford produce the Transit engine, the 2.0TDCi engine as used in the Mondeo and Jaguar X-Type (produced on the same line as the Transit engine as it happens), the 1.8 diesel engine as used in the Focus (all types of injection/tune), the 2.7V6 diesel in collaboration with PSA as fitted to the S and XJ Jags and the 2.3 petrol engine which is used in the Galaxy.
The latest Euro IV Mondeo is the same TDCi engine as the Euro III however fitted with the additional emission controls. The 2.2 diesel as fitted to the new ST TDCi is also a larger bored variant of this engine, initially Euro III and later Euro IV.
Additionally...Ford and PSA produce a 1.6 and 2.0 diesel as a joint venture in Europe. Both these engines are as sold with the C-MAX and additionally the 2.0 diesel is the engine fitted to the new Volvo S40/V50.
Thus Ford produce two 2.0 diesel engines, the Dagenham Mondeo engine being a chain cam, the Euro built Ford/PSA engine a cambelt drive.
Feel free to argue but I work for Ford, my housemate works in the engine plant and I have a Mondeo piston as a paperweight on my desk :)
Incidentally it's the official media launch of the new Focus tomorrow (Wednesday 1 September) for anyone who is interested...
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Thank you Dan J, it confirms my view that it is a different engine in the Mondeo.
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Just found this link with details of the Ford/PSA engines:
peugeot.mainspot.net/tips/new_diesel_v6.shtml
I knew that the C-Max TDCi was the PSA/Ford unit; surely it will not be too long before it appears in the Mondeo? It cannot be in Ford's interests to manufacture two different 2.0 TDCi's in the longer term.
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I knew that the C-Max TDCi was the PSA/Ford unit; surely it will not be too long before it appears in the Mondeo? It cannot be in Ford's interests to manufacture two different 2.0 TDCi's in the longer term.
It would certainly make the Mondeo a more attractive proposition for me. I wonder why they aren't using it in the Mondeo. Then again, Citroen haven't seen fit to use it yet either, which is surprising. I suppose it will be in the revamped C5 but why is it not in the Picasso?
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I suppose it will be in the revamped C5 but why is it not in the Picasso?
Its not found in the Picasso because it won't fit in the engine bay!
Given the current dismay of a large number of PSA engined C-Max TDCi owners with bad hesitation and horrific fuel consumption I'd say Ford's own chain cam TDCi 130 is the safest bet.
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I covered a couple of thousand miles in a C-Max TDCi in France and Germany this summer. To be honest I was (unexpectedly) very very impressed with this car. Economy was excellent. Only snags seemed to be that it was just a little 'tractor like' at car park speeds and I seemed to stall it easily (although that could have been my driving!). I would certainly consider one if in the market for a small MPV.
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So, there seem to be widely differing experiences of fuel economy with the C-Max TDCi engine. Anyone able to throw any light on why this should be?
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In it's most powerful form the Mondeo unit produces slightly less power than the C-Max engine, 130ps v 136ps however it produces a lot more torque, the most of an 2.0 diesel. Also has the benefit of chain cam.
Rather than ask when the belt cam engine will be fitted in the Mondeo, better to ask why the chain cam is not fitted to the Focus etc, answer it won't fit.
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