My brother-in-law will shortly welcome an extra family member. Sadly, this is due to the sudden and untreatable illness of one of his extended family, a single parent who is unlikely to survive into the autumn. As well as the obvious emotional traumas this involves, some practical issues have to be considered. They've been running a banger as family transport for them and their three children. Now that a fourth young child will unexpectedly be living with them fairly soon, they've asked me for suggestions for a six- or seven-seater car they can afford. Due their circumstances (mainly centring around health) the household is on a low income, so what they can afford is very little - less than £1500, probably. My brother-in-law said he'd heard of seven-seat Peugeot 405 estates, but I shudder to think of the potential reliability problems with that car - they have enough on their plate without having to constantly worry about breakdowns, repairs, etc. Because of the family's specific needs, I'm having trouble thinking of a car with at least six seats that will be affordable to them, reasonably reliable, and cheap to repair in the event that this becomes necessary.
For example - I was half thinking about a high-mileage Merc seven seater - at least those were well built, and I've seen diesel-engined versions with 150k on the clock for about a grand. However, I imagine that this car might be too costly to insure, or to repair if problems arise.
I would be very grateful for any suggestions that could meet the criteria described above.
Thanks in advance.
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andymc
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I could be wrong, but I seem to remember that the 405 was a pretty reliable car, quite a warhorse. As long as two of the kids are pretty young any old Volvo estate with the foldaway chairs in the boot would be another decent bet, they go on for ever.
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I agree with BazzaBear - Volvo would be my bet. We had a 405 many moons ago and whilst we will never have another Peugeot, reliablilty was fine until the head gasket went but that was due to a garage who cocked it up; other than that, it went fine.
I wish you the best of luck Andy and am sorry to hear about the unfortunate situation.
Adam
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Not sure if this link will work, but a simple Autotrader searcjh found this straight away, and many more in a similar price bracket:
javascript:more_info(200425148108265,26,'CARS',6,200425148108265,490
,560);
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Hmm....
Indeed it did not. It's a G reg with 70k and 7 seats for £750 anyway.
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If you can find one, A montego estate came with 7 seats. The Fiat version of the 806 thingy come cheap - £2.5k
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Sorry to read the reason for your post.
We used to do rather well, selling ex MoD LDV 200 mini-busses, to people needing a people carrier, without worrying about image.Customers often took out the last row of seats, as they were surples, to them, so big loadcarrier, too.
Also, the Royal Mail ran 200 & Pilots in 5 seat versions, as postbus/van in one.
Either of these may suit, all with 'proper' seats & belts, too.
They won't come directly at your budget, but should be plenty in the used market.
You'll need to check insurance aspect, 'cos it's a bit different to an ordinary car. Let us know if you need help in this direction, I've a couple of numbers you might try.
Also, no idea where you'd start, Citizens advice, maybee, but do make sure that ALL their entitlements/benefits are claimed. Thats why we have a welfare system.
VB
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We had a Volvo 7-seater; universally hated by the children because of the rear-facing occasional seats. I'd go for a Pug 405; if you can find one that's survived this long, it must be a good 'un.
Good luck with the unexpected challenge.
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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Andy we have got an L plate Mitsubishi Spacewagon 2.0 glxi, for the school run and trips to the dump etc. Its absolutely brilliant 7 seats if you need them with the back two folding into the floor. Ours took five of us to France and back last year and it still bats along in the outside lane without holding anybody up ! I've had a quick look in Autotrader and there seem to be some in the price range.
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Sorry to hear about this. They'd have no problem getting a 940 estate for that sort of money and they go on forever so less chance of unreliability (very important in this case) and costly repairs. Can't speak from personal experience about the rear facing seats but my brother's Wentorth was loved by the kids who queued up to get in the back. I suppose it depends how often the extra seats will be used and by whom.
On a separate note, do get your relatives to check they are getting all the benefits they're entitled to. The system's very complicated and many people don't claim for benefits they could get if only they knew about them. We've found the system to be a a nightmare at times. Best of luck!
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The guys down the road from has 2 old Volvo estates, they just seem to keep on running. He's always seems to bein his overalls repairing them though, but I suppose any old car will need to be maintained, whats important are spare prices & availability.
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would also suggest volvo 740 or 940 ,the 2.0litre gl is not too expensive to run or insure and loads about under £1500,spares are easily had from a breaker and not to expensive. best to avoid turbo as failure can be costly and dearer to insure.
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Volvo spares (many OEM) are readily available from Eurocarparts at very keen prices. I've used them several times with no problems at all.
On the benefits question, we found that support groups tend to offer very good advice on claims so it might be worth your friends contacting any which specialise in the sort of problems they are facing. HTH.
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Thanks very much to all who've replied. I'll pass on the suggestions and do a bit of digging on Autotrader to see what I can find. Have to admit I didn't even think of them being able to claims benefits in relation to the extra child, but I suppose that's probably available to them - this will be an adoption situation. If the need arises, I might post over on the IHAQ thread for advice/suggestions in that area.
As to the original question, the oldest child is six, then the new addition five, then three, then one - I guess seat size shouldn't be an issue. Car sickness could be, though, especially for anyone facing backwards. I take it the Volvo mentioned is a slightly more recent model than the Peugeot? I know I should be able to find this information in the CBCB, but in case these are older than those in the database I'll keep this question here. Do the rearmost seats tend to be in the crumple zone?
Sorry if I'm asking anything that seems obvious/easy to research - we're all a bit exhausted and I'm maybe not thinking too clearly. Have to admit this has all been a bit of a bolt from the blue - hopefully I'll keep any further postings relevant/coherent.
Thanks again.
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andymc
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I like the Volvo idea... but does anyone know how thirsty they are? I appreciate that if they're only doing 5k a year this probably won't matter, but sub 25 mpg is probably to be avoided regardless.
Otherwise the Spacewagon idea is very good. Before the Scénic allegedly invented the genre, there was also the Nissan Prairie. If the budget ends up being significantly below the £1,500 mark and something small and economical is worthwhile, one of these cars (though now pushing 15 years old) would be worth consideration.
Yes, it'll be ancient, and parts might be difficult to find, but if the budget really is only three figures, they might be worth a look.
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2.0 litre injection will easily do over 25 mpg,nearer 30 would be a fair estimate over all conditions,worth noting that although pre k reg had catalysers fitted it isnt neccesary for them to be working.I bought one very cheap as the warning light was on ,replaced it with a bit pipe and it passed emmisions test,the other thing which often gets overlooked is the flame trap on the breather which causes problems (oil out of the filler cap etc)simply redrill the holes with a very fine drill all in all a very good car to run.
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I concur re the 2 litre injection. I had the estate version and fully, and I mean fully, loaded it used to do 25 mpg on a trip.
The flame trap is cheap & easy to replace: I would not recommend bodging it as it is there for a serious purpose!
Roger in Spain
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Andy
I'm really sorry to hear of your BiLs situation.
Firstly, on the benefits,
They may receive a grant for fostering a child,or being a carer.
Their working tax or child tax credits need to be reassessed.
Don't forget the extra Child Benefit
Your BiL needs to see the people down and the DSS straight away.
Secondly on the car:
Renault Savanna 7 seater 1990 ish
Renault Espace - Older models
Montego estates with rear facing seats
Volvo estates, same
I shudder to mention the early discoveries, may be out of the maintenance budget for this situation, but you can pick up the 3 dr 7 seaters from 1500, even the TDis
Minibuses as mentioned by VB, Ebay often has a good choice of good Renault Trafic models often fetching around a grand or less. I am tempted to replace my van with one, as I think I'll get more for my money! The mileage is usually pretty reasonable.
It was the Peugeot 505s that had seven seats, not the 405s IIRC.
Good luck
Hugo
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Hugo, you beat me to it!
IIRC Peugeot 504, 505 and 406 were all available as 7 seaters , but the 405 was not.
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Of course! Renault Savanna; I'd forgotten all about those. Dodgy reliability though, surely?
We had a Space Wagon for five years, from three years old to eight and did 50,000 miles in it I think. It just kept on going and far better to drive that any Volvo with RWD. Strongly recommend one as they are reliable, comfortable - just don;t buy the Japanese diesel import - they always; and i mean always, blow the head gasket.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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How about an buying a real people carrier like an Espace?
OK some of the old ones are falling to bits, and I wouldn't like to race one, but you can pick one up for well under a £1,000, so for £1,500 you might get something clean and tidy.
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I drove my 940se 2.0l turbo for nearly six years and the only major thing that failed was the brake servo. Servicing parts were never a problem via Eurocarparts and components tend to be very well made. It passed every MOT no problem and the testers always commented on how well it, and other Volvos were built - no rust at all. My mileage was almost always urban and I got about 28mpg. My brother's Wentworth was an auto though and the MPG was quite a bit worse from what he tells me. At the time I gave it to my youngest brother the car was on about 140k on an 'H' plate, no bodywork problems and the interior still clean/tidy. They're not exciting cars but if I wanted a big, safe and reliable car for that sort of money I'd look no further than a 940.
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From ebay:
cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=...W
The vendor seems to deal in 7 seater Volvo and Toyota Camry estates
No idea of the quality of the cars but food for thought!
I wouldn't bid without going to look at the car though....
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Search for the Volvo 940 estates in the local papers and the dealers who do cheaper cars. You need someone who knows the model well and remember these cars do starship mileages if looked after. We have had 2 Volvo estates and found that main dealer servicing is very expensive so we used a one man band who rarely got the bill over £150.
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Just a thought...
Nissan Prarie
H
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Renault 21 Savanna with 7 seat option. This has proper, ADULT SIZED!! front facing extra row of seats in the back. I ran an E reg one for 2 years with no problems a ocuple of years ago - a newer one should suit you. It may be a Renault, but it has nothing electric! Super car.
Mercedes W123 230TE with 7 seat option - they are 2 rear-facing bench seats for small children only. Starting at £250. Make sure the self-levelling suspension is working properly (does the car sag? When you sit on the rear boot & turn on the engine do your feet leave the ground?) and that it has plenty of MOT & then buy it.
Or, for a bit of class, what about this?
cgi.ebay.co.uk then search for item 2482778199 tinyurl.com/2nmog
Audi 100 with 7 seat rear facing bench option - pretty rare though.
What about a Fort Transit. Seriously. 20mpg, indestructible diesel engine, nice high view of the road. Once you've started you'll never go back!
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Mercedes W123 230TE
[snip] When you sit on the rear boot & turn on the engine do your feet leave the ground?)
Maybe a test best performed only by those with very long arms! ;-)
What about a Fort Transit
good idea -- great to drive, tho only if you are going forwards. Poor visibility makes em a bit of a pig to reverse
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What about a Fort Transit
As suggested by bangernomics.tripod.com - though I cannot find the link to that page at the moment.
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Sorry to hear about the tragic circumstances.
The Japanese have been making MPVs for a lot longer than they've been trendy in the west, and as a result you can buy a proper Japanese MPV for a relatively small amount of money these days. Two options are the Mitsubishi Space Wagon and the Mk2 Nissan Prarie (both of which have already been mentioned in this thread). The Toyota Space Cruiser is another option, though having read HJs write-up in the car-by-car breakdown it sounds like one to avoid.
Personally, in your BiL's situation I'd go for a Mk2 Prarie... it seats seven and it still looks fairly up-to-date (like a mini Ford Galaxy). Japanese reliability may also be useful on a car of that age, though parts may be difficult to find when required.
A seven-seater of that age should give 3-point seatbelts for 4 of the rear passengers. Don't expect anything more than a lapstrap for the centre passenger on the middle bench.
I looked briefly at the Honda Civic Shuttle, but I think it only seats 5. The first mini-MPV (tall car)?
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It occurred to me to bring this up to date, now that everything has finally been settled. The child's mother died several weeks ago and was able to leave a small sum specifically for her daughter's new family to get a suitable car. This meant they were able to look for something more recent, and they ended up with an Alhambra TDi with about 70k on the clock. Seems to be a good one, no faults and a good service history according to my brother-in-law.
The girl has settled in to her new home and school and hopefully will bounce back now that she is living with cousins who will be like an older brother and two younger sisters. She is six, the cousins are two, four and eight, so she fits right in. Last time I was there they were all tearing around the place on some incoherent but wildly exciting adventure - the three older ones as a pack, followed a few moments later by the shorter-legged but no-less-determined two-year-old. Fingers crossed.
Once again, many thanks to those who took the trouble to reply.
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andymc
Vroom, vroom - mmm, doughnuts ...
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Hi Andy, glad to hear that your brother-in-law was able to get some suitable wheels, and I hope the car works well.
Glad to hear that things have got off to a good start for the young girl and her new family, but I'm suspect they'll all have their moments settling down and coming to terms with the tragedy and learning to live with each other ... so fingers crossed that that they all find enough love and patience to see it all through.
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I wondered what had happened. Condolences about the mother, but obviously delighted that the daughter has settled in.
Alhambra's are good cars, for some reason, seem to be better than the Ford and VW versions. Long may it provide the sort of service it is required for.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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