I was recently involved in an accident, the situation is this, near where I live is an alleyway that crosses the road, there is no restrictions in terms of speed or barriers to stop someone from riding their bike from the alleyway on one side of the road to the other side, on this particular day three kids (about 12 or 13 years old) were chasing each other (their words) and the lead rider failed to stop for the road (again in their words) fortunately, because of the road layout I was driving slowly, however the lead rider ran into the nearside front of the car, the bike pedal putting a hole in the bodywork near the fog light, the repair bill is in the £400 to £500?s region, I asked the father of the bike rider to pay for the repair, and he has refused, saying it?s a knock for knock situation, I don?t see it that way, am I being unreasonable?
The rider who was knock down did suffer bangs and bruises nothing more thank goodness, and her bike was badly damaged, but none the less, I believe the dad should pay, what do you think?
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Is this situation covered by the parents' third party insurance on their contents cover?
I wouldn't see it as a knock for knock - the cyclist failed to give way. I know the sort of alleys you mention and I always give way when I use them. Even though there are no road markings I would say that the driver on the road has right of way and so is the cyclist's fault.
BTW Before anyone mentions it, yes I am a cyclist and I have third party insurance when I am on the bike.
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If it were a car involved then I think it's clear that the other driver would be at fault.
However, if it's very difficult to attach any duty of care, and thus legal responsibility, to either the parents or the child in this situation. Consequently, while it seems pretty clear that the child (who should know better) is responsible, making them pay will be all but impossible. While the parents probably could claim against their home insurance, again it is hard to see how you can force them to.
If a child was injured, even on a fairly minor basis, you are lucky that so far they have not decided to pursue a personal injury claim against you. They actually have another eight years in which to do so - three years after the eighteenth birthday of the claimant - although with no GP or hospital records, this will be all but impossible.
Furthermore, if you do pursue it and the parents decline to take responsibility, it may encourage them to seek legal advice and at that point a personal injury claim may arise. If so, given the likely litigation costs and the reluctance of the courts to attach blame to the child in this kind of situation, your insurance company will probably be keen to settle in the claimant's favour if there is any evidence at all to show that the accident occurred.
I'm not attaching any blame to you, but suggesting that you assess the overall situation and then decide whether to pursue any claim.
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Even in these compensation happy times I don't for the life of me see how the child or her parents would have any case at all against Joe.
To win a case they would have to prove that Joe was largely or completely to blame for the accident, and from his description of the event all the fault lay with the cyclist.
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The key phrase is from his description of the event
Without wishing to doubt Joe's credibility, unfortunately insurance companies look at the chance of getting their costs back if they win (low), the chances of a differing acount being believed (reasonable), and the idea that simply moving at a speed enough to cause damage is negligent (wrong IMO but there is a risk that some blame could be attached). As a result, if a convincing claim were brought, truthfully or not, it would be quite tempting for an insurance company to settle.
This is not advice as the specifics are a long way from being established, but the odds of recovering money are small and the odds of a counterclaim are quite high, so from a tactical perspective I would certainly consider all my options.
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To cover yourself, make sure you report this to the police (if you havn't already).
I think you also need to tell your insurance company as you're supposed to tell them anything that might lead to a claim in case the parents do claim against you and in case you might want to claim for your own damage.
Re Insurance: A friend of mine had a similar(ish) incident where a younger child (relevance of younger might be that parents should have been watching her?) rode her bike into the back of his car and did several hundred pounds damage. Childs parents house contents insurance paid under third part liability.
If you're going to claim on your insurance then your ins company may well pursue the parents (or their insurance) for the loss. Can you establish even if they have insurance - if not, then can they afford £500 or so (plus cost of hire car while yours being repaired etc)?
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Maybe underlines the fact that ALL road users, cyclist included, should have compulsory thirt party liability insurance.
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I thought that in any accident on the road where someone's hurt, no matter how slight the injuries are it has to be reported to the police.
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"knock for knock" is [was] an agreement between insurance companies not to sue each other. It has nothing, absoltuely nothing, not anything at all, not in anyway any relevance at all to the question of blame.
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on the question of who should pay;
Lets be honest, who ever is in the right or wrong, you're not going to get any money. To the letter, then her parents should probably pay, but you haven't got much chance.
If I were you, I would speak to the Father, explain that he clearly knows nothing about the world of insurance and liability, and that the responsibility is his.
However, I would also explain that life is too short, you were a kid once, and who wants to go to court for the sake of it. Tell him that you think as a decent man he should give you a contribution but its up to him if he prefers to run away from his responsibilities; and then walk away and forget it.
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Definitely not a knock-for-knock situation, but depends on how much time and money you want to throw to recover your repair costs. It is because of this type of situation that I take out comprehensive insurance - you never know when you may get hit by someone uninsured, or a liar. My brother was hit up the back by an unisured gypsy (in a car) some years ago and the police were not interested in trying to persue him. As my brother had comprehensive insurance he got his car repaired (around £1000 IIRC) for the loss of his NCB. Here you have to decide if it is worth the hassle, definitely report the matter to the police but chances are that they will not want to get involved. Good luck, whatever you decide to do.
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a word of warning here, a similar thing happened to me, i was reversing from my driveway and noticed a kid on a bike, on the pavement i might add with no lights at 10pm. I stopped and he went straight into the back of my car, his parents agreed to pay the cost of repairs.
I took the bill round which came to £900 and they refused to pay it all but gave me £300, i was 17 and £900 was a lot of money I had to claim on the insurance and used to £300 to pay SOME of the excess, the insurance company tried to claim off the kids parents and obviously they wouldnt give any more to the fault was then placed down to me in insurance land.
Now I know nothing about insurance and the law but if i were you id give the names and addresses to your insuance company and let them sort it out, I lost out for the following 5 years on my insurance premium and it still enrages me that people can cycle with no insurance whatsoever.
On out estate there is a walkway that crosses the road and the cars have to giveway to pedestrians and cycles. there are giveway lines and signs and everything, we cycle there often and i still wont go sailing through and expect a car to stop, it just all seems like a recipe for disaster and im sure one someone WILL get hurt there.
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