I think I heard on the news this morning that Gordon "I've a stealth tax for everything" Brown is asking the OPEC countries to produce more oil to keep fuel prices down...
Do you suppose he considered something a little less drastic like.... oh I dunno, reducing fuel tax a little?
JaB
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He could do the decent thing and remove the VAT charge for the fule Duty...
Taxing a tax is a nice little earner.
PS don't hold your breath.
John R
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I not sure that will help, most of the OPEC countrys are producing above quota anyway and are near capacity - I'm not sure they could increase supply even if they wanted to, plus the US and China are sucking up more oil than ever. The supply of oil is becoming increasingly inelastic - it's inevitable that increases in demand are going to have a greater affect on prices than has been the case in the past.
(of course all my humble opinion)
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>>The supply of oil is becoming increasingly inelastic - it'sinevitable that increases in demand are going to have a greater affect on prices than has been the case in the past. (of course all my humble opinion)
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Well I don't have a problem with that, thats the way these things work..
The point I was trying to make was that Gordon is being a little cheeky when something like 2/3 of the price/Ltr in this country is tax.
And why would they take any notice of him anyway?
The blokes a buffoon!
JaB
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that's no way to talk about the workaholic who'll probably be the next Prime Minister - BTW, wonder if he ever drives a car (he has an artificial eye, I believe)?
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He won't lower fuel tax no matter how cheeky it is (remember he's having some difficulty balancing his books at the moment with all those spending increases) I noticed that Mr Blair also skirted round the issue of the petrol tax increase in September I expect that to happen as well.
I heard about GB's artifical eye - apparently it includes some form of x-ray device to enable him to see inside your wallet:)
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It is rumoured that next year's tax returns will be simplified down to three lines.
" A: How much did you earn"
"B: How much did you take home"
"C: Send a cheque for B, made out to "Inland Revenue""
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that's no way to talk about the workaholic who'll probably be the next Prime Minister - BTW, wonder if he ever drives a car (he has an artificial eye, I believe)?
Nobody has mentioned Michael Howard on this thread?
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I don't believe that OPEC producers are at capacity. Within in the past couple of months they agreed to reduce output to bolster up the price, particularly as we were coming into the lower demand summer months. Mind you, that's based on quotas and if they're over quota as you say then it's anyone's guess.
But now I understand they are going to meet to discuss upping output. I believe Saudi are keen to increase their oil revenues.
I think a major part of the present price increase is due to forward purchases (futures market), i.e. gambling.
I'm no economist [as you can probably tell] but it's a strange way to run the world.
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Grrr. Don't get me started!
I get paid my salary - TAXED
I save a large amount - TAXED
I use some of my savings to buy a new car - TAXED x3
I fill up with diesel - TAXED x2
I wonder when Mr B will realise that everyone else has to breathe? Something else to tax!
Anyway - I'm in danger of turning this thread into a political rant, so....
Requesting that OPEC increase production is a silly idea. Clearly they won't as they're operating what *could* amount to price fixing policy. Mr B won't reduce fuel duty - full stop.... unless people power gets the better of him. Trouble is, we Brits are just full to the brim with apathy.
As for those that say VED should be abolished and fuel duty increased - NO!! That would be a great excuse to sneak the duty up under a disguise.
Rant over - back to work.
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Apart from the usual manipulation of the price by OPEC to maximise profit, I've read that two other factors are contributing to the price rises at the moment:
1. The USA is stockpiling oil (hmm, I wonder why?).
2. The Chinese economy is growing rapidly and demanding huge amounts of oil.
In the case of 2, this is a great example of the free market at work. We demand cheap goods from them (£35 for a DVD player anyone?) but the effect is that they need to raise production to meet demand, thus the price of oil goes up and we pay more at the pumps. You can't win with this global markets game I'm afraid.
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OPEC has the capacity to increase production. Venezuela is hardly producing anything at the moment, and of course there's all the Iraqi stuff that they can't get out of the ground just now.....
Lower fuel duty now, and fix the supply problems!
O
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Oil prices have risen due to the OPEC decision to cut production by 1 million barrels a day in April and also due to fears of Middle East supplies due to terrorist attacks in Saudi Arabia and the continued problems in Iraq.
Price was USD 32.81 a barrel on 14th April and rose to USD 34.22 on May 5th.
It is highly unlikely that the price will fall below USD 28 per barrel( the top of OPEC's stated target band) in the foreseeable future.
( Source - Middle East Monitor)
Cost of Fuel in Qatar is 10p per litre and in UK currently around 80 p a litre - Is Gordon Brown ever going to get the message that he cannot continue to increase fuel tax duty and expect to remain in office?
( Source - Helicopter)
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you all make very valid and worthwhile points :-)
but as I said earlier really I was just letting off steam about GB trying to be all "Come on guy's poor old Joe Public is suffering! lower them prices!"
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Petrol prices over the last 100 years were discussed on TV today. Adjusted for inflation it has, historically, often cost more than the current price. Given that wages have outstripped inflation and cars are more economical than yesteryear the cost of fuel is not the great financial burden that we might think.
I'll go along with cutting fuel tax as long as Gordon personally consults me about what taxes he increases to compensate; or what public expenditure he cuts.
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Well said Cardew. Time for people to face the realities of economics and stop whingeing. You can't have owt for nowt. If you want better hospitals, more police and nurses, public transport etc. etc. yet at the same time lower taxes, you are going to be disappointed. How you go about these things and whether this lot are doing it right is a different question. Have your say in the ballot box or get involved in politics. Whingeing from the sides does nothing.
Now if you want to see real big price rise for crude oil, just wait until there is a big, successful terrorist attack on Saudi production facilities. Or instability in Saudi. Could be a rougher ride yet.
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Now if you want to see real big price rise for crude oil, just wait until there is a big, successful terrorist attack on Saudi production facilities. Or instability in Saudi. Could be a rougher ride yet.
Even if the Saudis increase production, the current situation is likely to recur. As more Chinese people want to drive cars, their demand for oil will continue to expand, and meanwhile the Americans are gobbling more and more fuel as they switch from their relatively thirsty cars to even more thirsty SUVs. (I'm not being anti-American here: Europeans use less, but still far more than most of the world's population)
Global oil supplies are pretty finely balanced against demand, and some oil experts argue that we may already be at (or near) the peak of global output. Even the most optimistic oil economists say that we will be in trouble in 30 or 40 years time.
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NoWheels,
"meanwhile the Americans are gobbling more and more fuel as they switch from their relatively thirsty cars to even more thirsty SUVs."
Whilst it is undoubtedly true that the USA still consumes far too much fuel I am not sure that the above statement is true. For some while sales of the gas-guzzling giants - the Escalades, Excursions, Suburbans and other big sport utility vehicles have been sliding. There is the same campaign against SUVs in America as in much of Europe(and frequently aired in the Backroom) Although admittedly the major car manufacturers have tried all sorts of tactics to circumvent the legal requirement to produce more fuel efficient vehicles, it is a fact that over the years their cars have become far more economical.
One should also not underestimate the impact of higher fuel prices in America. I appreciate that 30p or so a litre is cheap to Europeans but it represents a 35% increase over a year. Certainly the emphasis on fuel economy in car adverts(and for household utilities) is much more apparent lately.
The above is by no means a defence of the USA as they are still the biggest culprits and have the most scope for improvement; but "gobbling more and more fuel" they are not.
C
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I view & post on another forum where many of the members are American.
They are moaning bitterly at paying just over 2 dollars for a US gallon. "It cost me 50 bucks to fill my SUV" !
Here in Spain diesel is now around 74 - 79 centimos per litre. (= roughly 51 - 55 pence per litre).
Roger in Spain
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I really do think it is time that garages displayed the cost of fuel in its component parts. Petrol 18p/litre, Tax 62p/litre or whatever the relevant figures are. Perhaps that would make life a little more difficult for the hypocritical Mr Brown. It really sticks in my craw to hear him castigate the oil companies, when his real interest is establishing a margin so he can winch the price of petrol tax ever higher
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"If you want better hospitals, more police and nurses, public transport etc. etc. yet at the same time lower taxes, you are going to be disappointed."
Unless of course, you use the money that is thrown at these things more efficiently. Any proof that all the money spent recently has actually IMPROVED hospitals, education, education, education, police etc??
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remember, Greedy Gordon (or whoever is Chancellor) canna lose - even if he held or (unlikely) reduced the duty, I think his tax take goes up as the price rises .. so hammering the motorist, which has been a way of life under successive govts of all colours, goes on.
Anyone ever seen pics of him driving?
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...and what about VAT which was once just 8 percent, then 10 percent for a while, then 12 and a half, 15 and now 17 and a half? We have continually been stung by pathetic governments who have no idea how to balance the books. With all the revenue from North Sea Oil, we should have one of the lowest levels of taxation in the western world but unfortunately the incompetent fools we have elected to run the UK for the past 40 years (or thereabouts) have messed everything up. Wish I had the relevant job skills to emigrate.....
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"If you want better hospitals, more police and nurses, public transport etc. etc. yet at the same time lower taxes, you are going to be disappointed." Unless of course, you use the money that is thrown at these things more efficiently. Any proof that all the money spent recently has actually IMPROVED hospitals, education, education, education, police etc??
If we get into that discussion the mods will no doubt step in. You simply vote for a party you believe will spend money more efficiently. Even if they succeed it doesn't alter the balance of the equation for income & expenditure.
Similarly - to get back to the subject - you lobby and/or vote for a party that will lower the tax on motoring if you feel the emphasis is wrong.
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There are elections on JUNE 10TH.
Time to kick-out the colluding and corrupt big three.
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Not to disagree with you ST, but I doubt the Greens would turn out to be the motorist's friend either.
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The fact is so many of us are dependant on the car to get to work and to go about our everyday business. The oil producers- governments and petrol companies can therefore charge us what they like knowing that we have no option other to pay up or give up our livelihoods. None of them will give an inch on prices . I shall now dismount my high horse {who will have to go }'cause I hear Gordon is about to put fuel tax on hay........
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Just to correct an impression - China is actually a net exporter of oil. Of course, they're using more at home, which still makes a difference to the rest of us, but we'd be even worse off without them!
Time for biofuels to be taken a bit more seriously, perhaps?
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