The Almera is in a totally different league to the old Sunny - you cannot make a comparison.
Have you ever actually driven an Almera? There is very little wrong with them and I would certainly prefer one over many other small cars, including the likes of the Megane, Punto etc.
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"I bought a nearly new Nissan Sunny 1.4 a few years ago and it was the worst car I ever owned."
When did the Sunny cease production - 1995? Hardly fair to use that as a basis for commenting on the Almera. Rather like criticising a Focus because the Escort was dire!
FWIW I have driven several Almeras and found them to be pretty good if not exactly exciting - and I quite like their looks. I think at that price it makes a great deal of sense.
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Forgot to mention I owned a 1993 Nissan Sunny GTI 2.0E that was great and deservedly won Hot Hatch of the year in UK for 2 consecutive years. Also drove the Sunny GTI-R that was years ahead of its time.
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The GTI-R is in another league!
I agree you have to compare like with like but the Almera is very much in the same mould as my old Sunny LX. It has the same gutless engines, cheap plasticky interior, mediocre fuel economy, bland looks and heavy depreciation that the Sunny suffered from. I'm not saying the Almera is a bad car especially by mid 90's standards but the fact is even at £8500 buying one new doesn't make good financial sense. People expect cars to do more now than go from a to b and not break down which is a lesson Nissan has been slow to learn but it seems to have grasped with it's latest models.
At that price it looks cheap now but won't look like such a good deal after the markets flooded with cheap roll out Almera's and everyone wants the new model out next year and book prices are at rock bottom.
You could buy a 3 year old Golf TDI 130 for the same money that given proper care would be just as reliable, use less fuel and be alot easier to sell on. Cars are so well built now it's not necessary to buy new to get a reliable car and most faults occur in the first 3 months of ownership anyway.
If your paying a premium for the kudos of having a new car then why buy something as boring and unfashionable as an Almera?
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Nissan is about to introduce Renault's K9K 1.5 dCi engine to Almera range. 82bhp, slightly slower than current 1.5 petrol unit but it's wonderfully quiet and extremely economical. Wait till december sales and grab pre registered bargain...
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I think that's a big improvement putting the Renault diesel in but still better to wait for the new model. Mike Rutherford's been banging on for years about the real value of a car is the cost to change it after 3 years and not the purchase price but people still buy cars like the Peugeot 607,Vauxhall Vectra etc.
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It's all reasonable thinking except in this particular case the big question is - what better "fresh" car can you have for £8000-8500? 3 years old mid spec Golf? Two year old Pug 307 LX in strange colour? Or brand new Almera SE with side airbags, climate control, full trip computer with LCD, reverse parking sensors and label of the most reliable car in Europe...
True, it's not a contender to race at lights, it doesn't have any ghetto image and pikeys in dark alleys point blank refuse to steal it. But it's still a helluva car in hand for £8000...
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If your paying a premium for the kudos of having a new car then why buy something as boring and unfashionable as an Almera?
At £8,500 its not exactly a matter of paying a premium for the Almera!
As v0n pointed out, the same money would get a 3yo Golf, if you wanted the alleged benefits of a VW badge ... which lottsa ppl don't. Boring and unfashionable may be just what's wanted!
The Golf will be out of warranty, less reliable, and will have much higher maintenance costs (backroomers say that VW servicing is expensive).
In three years time, I suspect that a 3yo Almera with proven reliability might be worth more than a 6yo Golf. It would also cost a lot less along the way: see previous thread in which HJ's is quoted on "heavy repair costs, which can be a bugbear with ageing VWs": www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=22289&...f
Does anyone have any figures on the relative values in 3 years time?
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If it were my £8500 I would go for the new (with 3-year warranty) Almera.
The Golf will be out of warranty and is not the most reliable of cars. Any moderate/major problem will result in you being well stung by the VW dealer.
Three year old Golf is hardly fashionable; rather passe I would say...
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Just some quick back of an envelope type calculations i did..
All typical Auto trader used values..
ALMERA
New Almera Bought in 2001 at £10500
Value now after 3 years is about £6000
% loss in value is 43% or £4500
GOLF
New Golf Bought in 2001 at £12500
Value after 3 years is £8500
% Loss in value after 3 years is 32% or £4000
Value after another 3 years is about £6500
% Loss in value is 23% or £2000
So buying a new Almera today for £8500 + delivery charge etc??
Loss in value after first 3 years is 43 % (conservative figure since heavy discounting and new model will depress used values, more likely to be 50%)
So value after 3 years is 8500 x 0.57 = £4845
You lose £3655 in depreciation...
So the **real cost** of the Nissan is £1600 more than the VW It is not a cheap car IMHO
That doesn't include fuel savings
Golf TD.. 36,000@ 48MPG fuel cost is £3000
Nissan 1.5... 36,000& 36MPG ..fuel cost is £4000
Total saving from buying the golf over 3 years could be £2600..
Buys alot of MAF sensors!
Or you could but a two year old Seat Ibiza that still has a years warranty for the same money.
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Sorry Dieselhead, but your figures are all over the place.
You're trying to tell us that a six-year old Golf with 70k miles will be worth £6500 as a private sale/trade-in?? I doubt it. More like £4500 if you're lucky.
Then you're basing your Almera depreciation on one costing £10500.
Realistically I would expect either car to be worth around the £4k mark three years from now. The Almera will be three years newer (if he wants to keep it) and he'll have had the benefit of three years warranty.
I accept the fuel saving on the Golf - but you would need to allow up to £1000 for additional maintenance on the Golf over three years (MAF and cambelt; then you need to think about condition of tyres, exhaust and battery on 3 y/o Golf). Almera has chain cam so no belt change costs.
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Thanks for pointing that out Aprilla very fair point I forgot to add on the effect of the high mileage.
Looking on Autotrader again think i underestimated the depreciation of the Almera - it's more like 50% over 3 years and that's for trade prices.
01(Y) NISSAN ALMERA S 1.5 Litre engine, Pinnacle Autocentre 5 door, Hatchback, Blue, 36550 miles, Air Conditioning, Driver's Airbag, Multiple Airbags, Power Steering, Mileage Verified, Immobiliser, Electric Windows, AT FALKIRK BRANCH, Tel 01324 . . . . (trade
£5000
00(W) NISSAN ALMERA S 1.5 Litre engine, North East Garages Nissan 5 door, One Owner, Hatchback, Marine Green, 33225 miles, Air Conditioning, Driver's Airbag, Multiple Airbags, Power Steering, Immobiliser, Electric Windows, Radio Casette, Rear Wash Wipe, Split Rear . . . . (trade)
£5000
1998 VOLKSWAGEN GOLF TDi SE, 1998, (Nov), 115,000 miles, full service history, 17in alloys, 8 months MoT and 7 mths Tax, full GT Spec - phone for full details,. . . . . . (private)
£5400
Higher mileage 6 yo Golf's still seem to be worth more than low mileage 3yo Almera's even comparing trade and private prices. I can only see this getting worse as the last Almera'a are sold at knockdown prices. Cant see VW discounting new golfs so aggresively.
If you don't do a silly mileage and had the cambelt changed by the dealer before buying still think the Golf would be cheaper plus it's better to drive and doesn't have the cardigan and zimmer frame image.
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Dieselhead - you fail to understand that you compare £15,500-16,000 car to a £8,500 car (both prices from discounted broker). To follow your calculations a Y reg Golf TDI SE can be head for average of £6,995-7,4995, loosing also around half of it's value but this time it translates to £8,000 depreciation in 3 years. The maths you do seem to work one way in your head.
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vOn -
You seem to be under the impression that a 2001 Almera is worth £1000 more than it really is so maybe you should check your "head".
"You should expect to pay £4000-4500 for 5 year old 1.6 GX model". I nearly fell of my chair laughing.
Agree my depreciation percentages are too high for the Almera based on top dealer prices. But the bottom line is it's cheaper to buy and run the older Golf over 3 years.
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OK, while I'm checking my head as your were polite enough to suggest I shall leave you with some numbers to crunch:
Using Glass's valuations
Nissan Almera 1.5 SE
Let's say we didn't purchase it from cheapest place but paid the suggested £8,500.
2003 53 reg 10,000 miles - £6970
2002 52 reg 20,000 miles - £6100
2001 51 reg 30,000 miles - £5290
Note the value of 2001 model slightly drops because SE had less extras before facelift
Depreciation over the first 3 years "by the book" is £3210.
Volkswagen Golf IV 1.6 SE just to keep engine sizes and trim on similar level.
Let's say we purchased it as 2001 51 reg with 30,000 miles on the clock.
According to Glass's guide it would cost us £8450 to buy.
2000 T/V reg 40,000 miles - £6740
1999 S/T reg 50,000 miles - £5910
1998 R/S reg 60,000 miles - £5130
Depreciation over 3 years "by the book" is £3320, depreciation over first 3 years from new around £5500.
Very similar depreciation figures, except after 3 years instead of parting with a car that's just out of manufacturer's warranty we would end up with 6 year old VW. And of course let's not forget the fact that if we were to own that Golf from new we would loose almost double the figure in the first 3 years to depreciation.
Anyway, 3 years old Golf vs brand new Almera. I doubt Golf would look much better with it's late eighties bland interior and minimalistic trim levels. It won't be better equipped. The yob's favourite, being a 1992 design, will be short of automatic climate control, side airbags, parking sensors and brake force distribution electronics. It won't be any faster (104bhp 13.0 sec to 60 vs 110bhp and 12.7 sec to 60 of Almera). It won't be more economical (Golf IV 1.6 40 mpg average, Almera 1.5 SE 42mpg average). It won't be more reliable (Chain driven Almera scores 5 in Warranty Direct reliability index vs Golf 19). But Golf will have street credit, draw blueberry caps off heads at McDonalds and your neighbours won't ever ask you to hide your car from driveway when their guests come to visit. If that's important for you.
As I wrote in previous posts, it's pretty much choice between driving a brand new car with all the extras and security that manufacturer's warranties provide or driving a 3 year old Volkswagen simply because of the badge and urban myths about its weight in gold. Almera is extremely well designed car, quiet, soft, well equipped, it has enough space for family of 4 and it's miles ahead of competition in safety scores. It's not offensively ugly. It's doesn't have any major production faults. There is not a single thing you can point at and say it's bad. And no "plasticky interior" won't cut, it's a plague of all cars nowadays. Want ugly and plasticky? Ever been inside any Subaru? Almera is also much more expensive car on the continent than you would expect judging by its appreciation in homeland Britain.
You would really have to hate Nissan designs to think mk IV Golf is a better buy...
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Speculations on paper. Almera was never £10,000 car on the court yard. So this should be more of a:
New Almera bought in 2001 at £7999 incl metallic is worth now around £5500-6000. The older shape Almera phase2 are still going strong in autotrader. You should expect to pay £4000-4500 for 5 year old 1.6 GX model. I think that's not bad going at all. I bought my ex demo 1.5 SE last year in December for £6090! So far it's depreciation is purely theoretical. And for that I thank people who think VW Golf is the bees knees. Thanks to the wonderfull myth that Golf is somehow an interesting and not just bland looking heavily overpriced and underspecced car I could enjoy full colour coding, climate control, aircon, two airbags + side airbags, 6 speaker stereo, computer and ultrasonic reverse sensors for a price of 1 litre Polo.
I am not saying there are no better cars to have out there. Give me Seat Leon or even new 1.4 diesel Fabia and I will pick it over my Almera any day. But for £8000-8500 I honestly can't think of a better bang for buck or even equipped vehicle currently on sale in UK under £10,000.
Btw. According to AutoExpress Nissan rejected the Megan looking replacement for Almera. They won't be sold in Europe. So, facelift might be delayed by few years.
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Interesting - I certainly seem to have hit a nerve judging by the length of your post - no offence intended to Almera owners!vo. I do think that a perusal of autotrader gives a more realistic view of what's going on in the car market than glass's guide. Anyway I hope I have put a case for buying an older more expensive..some might say better quality car versus new. It's a reasonable argument to make IMHO reflecting a decision alot of car buyers must make. Anyway i should leave it there as all the Nissan enthusiasts here will never agree.
Must say I think a good few motoring journalists would be on my side - gist of what they say is don't touch the Almera with a bargepole!
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Interesting discussion this between v0n and dieselhead and after reading this I must say that -
If you want a really good, reliable car with all the bells and whistles that can be had , go for the Almera.
On the other hand if you are more bothered about the supposed difference a car with "image" and street cred should hopefully make to your life and are prepared to drive a less equipped older car for more money, then by all means go for the Golf.
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My brother bought an Almera 1.5 from Jeffries Farm 4 years ago and it has been perfect,doing 45K trouble free miles.
Simply had an annual service when due. Had the third one after 2 years 11 months in case anything needed doing under the warranty. Needn't have bothered - flawless.
Drives OK, handles ok, spacious and in metallic blue looks quite nice.
Absolute bargain I say.
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