My Alfa 156 saloon is certainly a friend. My best friend. 3 years of ownership and 62000 miles of fantastic, trouble-free motoring.
However, Alfas, and the 156 in particular, always appear near the bottom of the reliability surveys (eg JD Power), so there must be a stack on unsatisfied owners out there. Oddly, I've never actually met any. I know 4 other Alfa owners, and they all adore their beautiful motors. It seems you can be lucky or unlucky with an Alfa, so keep your fingers crossed if you place an order.
To be honest though, even if mine suffered some problems, its looks, handling and individuality would cause me to forgive it. Massive depreciation though, so consider buying nearly new, imported, or if new from the UK expect to keep hold of it for a good few years!
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And furthermore....not sure what all the tosh about the naff interior is all about. The dashboard of a 156 is the best I've sat behind (and I've say behind a few dashboards in my time - I use a different hire car about once a week). Those binacled dials to prevent the passenger from seeing, those circular air-vents, and that Alfa badge on the steering wheel.....
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2/ Looking dated? No way. When it arrived it had classic lines and shapes, It may now look familiar, but dated? nope. Specially the sport wagon.
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Sorry x 2.
1) Yep, meant dodgy.
2.) Sorry, I still think the 156 looks dated now - brilliant when it was introduced, though. Hasn't aged well.
And there's no escaping the fact that Alfas do have a reputation for iffy reliability and 2nd-rate build quality, even though they've come on a huge amount in recent years. And add to that what you hear about dealers...
The new coupe looks terrific, but I'd worry about being dissatisfied with it after a short while. GTA models - brilliant engines and performance but...
And if Alfas were that brilliant, they'd hold their value better. Or has the market got it all wrong?
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Yes, they do still have that reputation, but to a large extent that is due to the overhang of their failures in the 70's and 80's. Throughout the 90's their reliability increased dramatically, and I honestly don't think they're any worse than the majority of brands nowadays. I have a late 90's Alfa, and certainly do not consider it unreliable after 2 years of ownership. I do consider it a hell of a lot of fun though, where a lot of other cars would not have been.
And the reason they don't hold their value is exactly the same: people who can't see past a twenty year old reputation.
Don't know why I'm trying to talk you out of it though, long may it continue, I buy car's second hand, so this way, not only do I get a fantastic, zesty car which puts a smile on my face, I get to pay much less for it AND for it to be a relatively rare car.
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And if Alfas were that brilliant, they'd hold their value better. Or has the market got it all wrong?
What, like those reliable but expensive Volkswagens? The truth galloped away from the marketing hype a long while back, yet the perception continues to support rock-hard residuals.
I for one am grateful for lower residuals on Alfas. It enabled me to buy I car that, when launched 2 years earlier, was well beyond what I was prepared to pay for a car. I don't mind taking a hit on 50% of the price of a new car if I'm keeping it for 3 years / 100,000 miles.
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alfa 166 depreciates like a brick, but the 147 is quite expensive IMHO. looking at the car guides its only 2% off a golf on depreciation. golf being 47% value after 3 years IIRC
i love alfa's but there reliablilty does get bad press- but saying that the golf gets many bad reports.
i dont think alfa's are any worse - think there dealers need to get up to scratch.
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think their dealers need to get up to scratch.
Bingo!
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We've got 2, a 156 GTA and a 147 JTD, no reliability issues with either (both at about 17k miles)
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Anybody who thinks the 156 looks dated has naff taste if you ask me. Just what does it look dated against? It is a seriously pretty car and always will be, no matter how many years go by. It is one of those designs that will remain a classic forever and that accolade cannot be given to many of the current crop from most of the major manufacturers.
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IMHO dealers can make or break personal opinions of marques.
The dealer experience I've had when dealing with problems on
my Passat has put me off VW's for a while.
Both dealers I've used seem to have a problem in being straight with the customer, warranty work is a real perception issue, dealers perception appears to be the customer has broken it and my perception is they haven't designed/built it correctly.
Absolutely no middle ground at all.
Dealers have got to get their carp together, if I'm paying serious money for a service I want to feel that they care about
their work - it's a serious tool to me and I look after it as you would any tool you need to earn a living.
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Dated and Naff ?
Yeah so dated and naff that almost all other marques are now using 166/156/147 styling cues...
If Bangle had designed the 147 it would look like a One series...
Walter DeSilva based the entire SEAT range on his work with the 156 AND is doing the same to the current Audi's.. all deep bumpers and high waistes, big wheels in big arches, while looking for clues from a sporting heritage.
Buy the Sportwagon , drive it and love it.
;) Or you could be a sheep ;)
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Buy the Sportwagon , drive it and love it.
I did, I do and I always will
:o]
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>> Buy the Sportwagon , drive it and love it. I did, I do and I always will :o]
good lad ;-)
you may be surprised to learn that I don't in fact :-D
I have an S3 Spider and a 147 and until very recently I also had a GTV, a car so gorgeous to look at, it should be illegal :-) They are a fantastic drive as well .. result all round!
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Never met a dissatisfied 156 owner? Here I am.
Owned a beautiful silver, with red leather interior, 2 litre T-Spark 156. My dream car. Test drove it - fell in love with the sound it made and loved the acceleration and handling. Interior made me feel very special. But:
Suspension was made of cardboard - had various parts of front suspension replaced
Acceleration was pathetic, even dangerous, when car was cold. Even when hot is was not really there below 3000rpm
Variator went - sounded like a diesel
Aircon was rubbish
Car kept hitting ground as front clearance / suspension set-up was inappropriate
Dealer couldn't fix problem and didn't seem to care about spending my hard-earned on new parts willy-nilly
I was the second owner and suffered £2.5k depreciation (from £7k) in one year, as well as many repair bills. And I was lucky - the guy who bought it new paid out even more - again suspension, steering rack, leaking sunroof. I still feel guilty about selling it on.
So, far from a 70s hangover, this was a 1998 Alfa. I will never buy another. I am now the very happy owner of a Honda Civic (no joke). OK, it is a Type-R.
Mattster
Boycott shoddy build and reliability.
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I couldn't have paid for that Mattster! Lol :-)
Just to make it clear though to everyone, I still think that the exterior design is gorgeous, it's so sleek, that's why I was gonna buy the one that was traded in at work as I would have got it at the trade in price. :-D
Blue
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Yep, Mattster. Sounds exactly similiar to my old 164 Twin Spark, except for the performance bit. The 164 went like Harry Clappers with bags of torque steer, just to keep you on your toes. Yet, with all its faults, I loved it to bits, even if it did do its best to bankrupt me!
Having said this, No 2 son has been running a 156 for two years with none of the problems Mattster and I have experienced, albeit, being a city dweller (Edinburgh) he doesn't clock up anywhere near the annual mileage I was putting on the 164.
I really do think that to buy an Alfa is something of an act of faith but they are fantastic motors and one of these days..... just maybe!
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You see, here we are talking about a 6 year old 156 and a 164. Now lets change this to a 6 year old Passat and an Audi 100.
Oooh, look, someone's had to pay some repair bills on them!
Well lets just not by any German cars ever again then. No car is perfect. Look at all the highly peed-off Mercedes owners out there.
The public in the UK expect Italian cars to be a pile of scrap so they ignore any good remarks and concentrate on those who confirm their suspicions. The JD power survey is totally at odds with my experience and that of many other 156 owners I talk to, but it gets the headlines because it confirms peoples expectations. I'm perfectly satisfied, but can't be bothered to fill in a survey form. I'm not sure what really persuades people to do so, as not two cars offer the same ownership experience and so much of the JD Power result is down to how people's expectations are managed.
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Agree with much of what you say, No Dosh but the 164 was only 3 yrs old when I first acquired it and it had problems right from the start, indeed it failed its second MOT, needing a new steering rack (54k), fortunately covered under an extended warranty. Yet, as I said, in spite of the almost constant need to replace bits and pieces, I thoroughly enjoyed owning and driving the car, which incidentally I think is one of the most beautiful cars ever designed. Also, in 130k miles, I only broke down on the road once, with a split thermostat housing so I am not knocking Alfa's reliability, just the quality of some of their components in the 90s.
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Funnily enough I recently picked up a 1993 edition of automotorgofastercar generic motoring magazine (exact title escapes me right now) on eBay the other day as I was after a review of the Barchetta 595. Low and behold, there on the rear cover was the ad for the 164 2.0TS in all it's glory. I agree, a fine looking car.
Incidental to that, it also had a full review of the Bangle designed Fiat Coupe covering the various design stages and alternative proposals (which goes to show that just because it's a beautiful Italian car doesn't mean to say it's an Italian design). Obviously a good year for Italian cars.
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Sorry to hear about your Alfa troubles Mattster. Presumably you're one of the people who submit reviews to JD Power and result in the car coming bottom of the pile?
Did the car have the sports suspension? I opted for "normal" suspension as I'd heard problems with "grounding" etc on the lower settings.
Not sure what the acceleration problem was, I don't have this on my manual 2 litre (although admittedly it does pull better at higher revs).
Also admittedly, the aircon isn't the best I've experienced, but then I live in England so don't really need the most impressive air-conditioning system ever designed.
Enjoy the Honda. Such an interesting car.
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