I've just run a new Toyota Celica 190 and am wondering when to change the oil
The dealer / manual say 10k miles but surely its better for the car to do it before then ( say after 2-3k ?)
The reason being as the oil coats the pistons it will get tiny slivers of metal within it which are residual from the cars build. The longer these slivers remain in the oil the worse wear it will cause the engine
I have friends in the US who cannot believe we go 10k without an oil change ?
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I'd go for 5K to give the engine a chance to run the residuals of the pistons then run a flushing oil and change. Go for a synthetic as well. Look at 5K or 6 months (whichever is first).
With any car, never ever run it more than 3000 revs until warm.
BTW, nice car. :)
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I understand that new cars come with a special oil specifically for the running period . I know hj believes in shorter than recommended oil changes but unless you are keeping the car above 60k in my experience you are wasting your time and money. My son runs my old Primera which is on 55k with only manufactures recommend oil changes and it runs like new ,ect
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The "Yanks" change their oil like I change my pants. They have drive-thru oil change centres (or is that, centers) where u can get an oil and filter change in the time it takes to eat a Big Mac and quaff a triple-thick shake.
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Ray's hit the nail on the head here. Whatever you do with the oil will probably make no difference whatsoever for the time that you keep the car. If you were to keep it forever, it' worth spending the money, if not, why bother? It will be someone else's problem. Truth be known, it will probably run to 70K without a single oil change. At the end of the day, the cars life is usually ended by the failure of a component other than the engine.
Having said that, I always change my oil every 3K. But then I'm like that.
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Overkill.
Run it to 10K and don't, whatever you do, use a flushing oil. Use a flushing additive instead.
David
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David,
Out of curiosity, why do you recommend not using a flushing oil? Never used one myself, but I know people who do.
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Tom,
By all means use a 300ml flushing additive (Wynn's, Forte etc.) as we do:-)
Add it to the engine oil and run the engine at tickover for 10 minutes.
I wouldn't advise doing this on a miley motor - it can dislodge varnishes and laquers which seal the piston rings to the bore, this will lead to a smoky motor.
I've seen it done many times.
I would be wary about using a flushing oil - i.e filling the engine with 5 litres of proper flushing oil. This would be complete overkill. I remember seeing this oil in Castrol 5 Litre containers back along. Havn't seen it around for ages though.
Rgds
David
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My local Mitsubishi agent always uses flushing oil for every service..........can he be wrong? He's the main dealer.
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The only thing I have against these flushing oils or additives is that when you drain down after using them you must leave a percentage of flushed diluted oil in the engine which then mixes with your new oil refill.
I think I would prefer to leave behind undiluted old engine oil which still retains its full lubricity.
Alvin
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Running an engine at tick over for 10 mins on degraded oil (ie mineral base 10k miles old) with flushing additive is very bad for the engine- the loading on the tappets and camshaft is highest at idle. If you change the oil before it degrades you do not need to use these flushing fluids. The detergents in most high quality oils are far better than these. Using good quality oil means the engine does not chock up with rubbish, giving better performance/economy. Most modern cars if driven hard will not survive more than 70k with mineral oil changed every 10k or more, unless they do the milleage very quickly. You should see my mums 850 T5. It doesnt make stadard power anymore due to engine and turbo wear, and that has been on synthetic for the last two and a half years. The oil the main dealer supplied completely degraded after 6 months, and as a result ruined the engine.
Ben
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Paul
There won't be slivers of metal in the oil, that's what the filter is there for. The latest Audis have a variable service interval where the first oil change from new can be as long as 2 years or 20,000 miles. The structure of a modern synthetic oil means it is supposed to go the course.
Personally I'm with HJ where the oil is the cheapest moving part in an engine and does most of the work (it lubricates, cools, seals, scavenges and one other thing I forgot). Change it every 5,000 miles or 6 months whichever later.
Colin
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As David wrote, run the factory fill for 10k in order to promote some wear and allow the engine, particularly the oil rings, to bed in. If you have a VAG PD diesel, whatever you do, DO NOT USE A FLUSHING ADDITIVE OR FLUSHING OIL because this could damage the teflon piston coatings. Ray is dead right that if you're going to dispose of the car after doing 70k in a couple of years you could get away without changing the oil at all. Some fleets still do that. The reason why extended oil change intervals were brought in was to please fleet managers who don't give a stuff what sort of condition the engines of their cars are in when they dispose of them at 60k - 100k. But if you want your engine to last and to run efficiently then, once its run in, change the oil every 5,000 - 7,000 miles (depending on whether it's semi-synthetic or synthetic). Okay, if an oil change costs you £30 and you get a 2 mpg advantage, you will only benefit by about £10. But you'll have a healthier, more reliable motor to sell on.
HJ
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HJ's right - an oil & filter change, while you wait shouldn't cost more than £35 - £40. We use this as a marketing tool to get cars through our workshops.
As previously stated, the Americans are leagues ahead of us in this respect.
The price you paid at the Audi dealership, Colin, is absolutely ridiculous!
Rgds
David (Wish I could get away charging those prices!)
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HJ said "if an oil change costs you £30", Audi charged me £110 for 5 litres of Mobil 1 and a filter when I asked them to change the oil at 5,000 miles on my S3! Their cost was probably £20, so I paid £90 for 10 mins work, ie £540 an hour. Not bad work if you can get it.
Colin
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Dagenham Motors (owned by Ford and by definition London area) charge £30 - £40 for an oil and filter change using Texaco Havoline 5w/30, and leave the residue of the 5-litre container in the car for topping-up. It wasn't always like this, but it is now.
HJ
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I know Dave, but my hands were tied by the fact I needed the stupid VSI indicator turning off and the warranty to remain intact.
The problem with main dealer prices is that it isn't often the end user that pays their bill, I bet the majority are company car/lease drivers with an expense account. When it's your own money, it hurts.
Colin
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Interesting story from FleetNewsNet about increasing numbers of engine failures, particularly diesels:
www.fleetnewsnet.co.uk/home/home_fullarticle/?arti...1
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Interesting story Phil, but the comment at the end made me smile:
Hewett added: 'There is also an environmental issue to this, because if a vehicle is burning through two or three litres of oil, what effect is that having on the atmosphere?'
And what of the environmental issue of the 300+ litres of fuel burnt at the same time!
Colin (takes "green" felt hat off)
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That's a useful link to the Fleet News story, but if the engine is burning 3 litres of oil in its first 10,000 miles the hydrocarbons produced get converted in the catalytic converter, so the environmental issue only arises during the 5 minutes or so after start up that it takes for the cat reach catalysing temperature.
HJ
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There are issues here!
If you have an old,mucky engine wot you have just bought in,say a Range Rover,just for fun,then running it gently for about 500 miles on diesel specific oil(and new filter),usually works.
At the other end of the spectrum is running in......I dont know how you do this on modern engines,I think my 170k xud is probably run in,but it doesnt use any oil yet.
meanwhile the Hdi in the citroen is as tight as a tick.
So I'm going to leave the oil in for about 12k just to get it lapped in a bit.Then we move to a b3,or preferably b4 or5 synthetic.
Even so I am not happy about oil being in the sump for more than 6 months,it not only oxidises but parts of it evaporate.
And changing oil should be part of the driving test! It really isnt one of lifes more demanding propositions.
5 litres of B3 diesel synthetic is about nine quid in Auchan Boulogne,and a really very good filter for most things is a fiver in the same place.
Thats fifteen quid ,and the best favour you can do an engine is spend fifteen quid on it every 6 months.
So IS there an issue here?
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