Mazda 3 '25MY - Mazda 3 '25MY - 2.0l G being replaced with a 2.5L

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Tue 10 Sep 2024 13:03
Mazda 3 '25MY - Mazda 3 '25MY - 2.0l G being replaced with a 2.5L - Mr Mc

Mazda being Mazda !!

Mazda 3 '25MY - 2.0l G being replaced with the 2.5L as used in USA & Oz. No turbo.

Power & torque slightly improved, but still a low stressed engine for a 2.5L. Real MPG looks very similar between the two engines. Minimal price increase. Skyactive X still being retained in the range.

Any thoughts on this change to the 2.5L, apart from Mazda being Mazda !!

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Tue 10 Sep 2024 13:47
Mazda 3 '25MY - Mazda 3 '25MY - 2.0l G being replaced with a 2.5L - badbusdriver

You'd have to wonder why bother?

The figures i found (if correct) say an extra 6bhp over the 2.0 Skyctive X (at the same rpm), which it's doubtful anyone would notice. And while there is an extra 25nm of torque, it peaks 1000rpm higher. So unless ragging the car, i'm not sure you'd notice that either.

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Tue 10 Sep 2024 19:49
Mazda 3 '25MY - Mazda 3 '25MY - 2.0l G being replaced with a 2.5L - Engineer Andy

If true, this would be very strange, given the similarity in performance between the 2.5L SA-G and 2L SA-X engines.

I'm wondering if Mazda are doing this for financial / cost-cutting reasons, i.e. they drop the 2L SA-G globally, sell either the 2.5L SA-G as-is everywhere, or de-rate it to some degree for the markets they currently sell the 2L version, to differentiate it from the SA-X engine.

Whilst I don't agree with the rapid change to EVs, even with the slowdown in EV sale / sales growth of late, Mazda are in a bit of a pickle here, given the overwhelming majority of their sales are still MHEV ICE and very few are pure EVs or a range extender / PHEV version.

Most of their sales are still in Japan and North America, with more Down Under than in the UK by a country mile, even if most of them are 'utes'. As I recall, the 2.5 SA-G is already sold in those markets and I'm not sure if the SA-X is in North America or Australia.

It does make some sense to rationalise the lineup, but I would've thought that going the SA-X route would be preferable, even if ICE is being phased out, as it is the newer tech and better on the emissions front.

Mazda did say when it was first released that it could be and was planned to be scaled up/down for the other models in the range, but that has not materialised, possibly due to the effects of the pandemic.

It could be that they are going to ditch the SA-X rollout and use a combo of their proven 1.5L and 2.5L SA-G engines until their tie-up with Toyota on the next-gen hybrid / EV front provides them with a full range of engines. I wouldn't be surprised if this also involves (sadly) ditching their TC auto boxes for Toyota CVTs at the same time. The CX-60 and Yaris clone 2 full hybrid already has them.

A shame that the Mazda3 in 2.5 turbo SA-G form never reached our shores, even if the US version was oddly an (TC) auto only model. That might be a problem for the purists, but fine for me, though I would rather have the better ride quality on the lower powered versions as they are available on sensible 16in tyres.

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Wed 11 Sep 2024 13:40
Mazda 3 '25MY - Mazda 3 '25MY - 2.0l G being replaced with a 2.5L - misar

Sorry to spoil the fun of speculating but the UK price list etc for the 2025 model year 3 is available to download.

The current 186ps 2.0L SkyActiveX is available in the hatchback or saloon with the hatchback also having a 140ps 2.5L SkyActiveG option. All mild hybrids. The UK version of the 2.5G is only slightly more powerful than the old 2.0G and actually less than current European 2.0G variants.

For those who can't resist speculating, it seems highly likely that Mazda need to reduce their worldwide ICE range as it is slowly phased out. No doubt the Americans etc will continue to get substantially more powerful tunes of the 2.5G, not to mention their turbos.

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Wed 11 Sep 2024 22:20
Mazda 3 '25MY - Mazda 3 '25MY - 2.0l G being replaced with a 2.5L - Engineer Andy

Sorry to spoil the fun of speculating but the UK price list etc for the 2025 model year 3 is available to download.

The current 186ps 2.0L SkyActiveX is available in the hatchback or saloon with the hatchback also having a 140ps 2.5L SkyActiveG option. All mild hybrids. The UK version of the 2.5G is only slightly more powerful than the old 2.0G and actually less than current European 2.0G variants.

For those who can't resist speculating, it seems highly likely that Mazda need to reduce their worldwide ICE range as it is slowly phased out. No doubt the Americans etc will continue to get substantially more powerful tunes of the 2.5G, not to mention their turbos.

To be fair, the 2.5G already was available in the Mazda6 in the higher output form (194PS) until the car was no longer sold in the UK around 2022. From what you've gleaned (thanks), they appear to be de-rating it to replace the uprated 2G that was in the 6 and still is in the lower spec versions of the CX-5 to rationalise the number of engines they offer in their lesser markets.

Presumably the torque output of the de-rated 2.5G will be significantly higher than that of the 143PS (and 165) uprated 2G engine, and thus should be better to drive under most circumstances because you won't need to thrash it. Fine by me if that's the case, especially if they pair it with one of their TC auto boxes.

I still find it odd that they spend (presumably hundreds if not more) $Ms developing the Skyactiv-X tech just when governments were agitating to go 'full EV', meaning all that R&D may result in big losses because it wasn't rolled out (scaled up or down) to any other models than the 3 and CX-30. Maybe they had plans a long time back and the politicians changed their tune very quickly.

What a waste. I wonder how many other manufacturers were in the middle of similar R&D periods where they had to scramble (at great expense) to change to the EV route much earlier than anticipated and now are haemorrhaging profits because of it and the lack of (private) consumer enthusiasm for EVs at the moment.

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Thu 12 Sep 2024 13:01
Mazda 3 '25MY - Mazda 3 '25MY - 2.0l G being replaced with a 2.5L - misar

Presumably the torque output of the de-rated 2.5G will be significantly higher than that of the 143PS (and 165) uprated 2G engine, and thus should be better to drive under most circumstances because you won't need to thrash it. Fine by me if that's the case, especially if they pair it with one of their TC auto boxes.

No need to guess as Mazda provide full technical information (240 vs 213 at lower RPM).

More significantly the 2.5L engine has been tuned for the UK market so that it has slightly better fuel consumption and slightly lower C02 emissions than the 2.0L it replaces. Thanks to our taxes we care more about these things than Americans.

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Thu 12 Sep 2024 16:03
Mazda 3 '25MY - Mazda 3 '25MY - 2.0l G being replaced with a 2.5L - Engineer Andy

Presumably the torque output of the de-rated 2.5G will be significantly higher than that of the 143PS (and 165) uprated 2G engine, and thus should be better to drive under most circumstances because you won't need to thrash it. Fine by me if that's the case, especially if they pair it with one of their TC auto boxes.

No need to guess as Mazda provide full technical information (240 vs 213 at lower RPM).

More significantly the 2.5L engine has been tuned for the UK market so that it has slightly better fuel consumption and slightly lower C02 emissions than the 2.0L it replaces. Thanks to our taxes we care more about these things than Americans.

The large disparity - at least in the 'official' numbers - is in the performance. From looking at the brochure, the difference in mpg aside from low speed urban work in about 5%, more so for CO2.

Mazda was always touting that the SA-X's real-world efficiency was supposedly going to be 20% better than the SA-G, but using the de-rated 2.5 seems to drop that significantly. You would've thought they would've checked that during the R&D phase to avoid the embarrassment!

Additionally, actual owners of the 4th gen 2L SA-G seem to report better performance than advertised (10.4 sec to 60mph), so I'm inclined to believe that the same will likely occur for the de-rated 2.5L version, whose 'official' time is slower than the official time for the 2L petrol of the gen-1, never mind the gen-3!

The torque output is almost identical between the two engines, so I'd bet that in real-world use, the performance difference would be far less than the 1.4 sec in the brochure.

Unfortunately, as our VED is no longer banded as it was for the 2001-17 cars, the SA-X won't be able to take much advantage of the lower CO2 emissions, just a 1% reduction in BIK for company car users.

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Thu 12 Sep 2024 13:29
Mazda 3 '25MY - Mazda 3 '25MY - 2.0l G being replaced with a 2.5L - misar

I still find it odd that they spend (presumably hundreds if not more) $Ms developing the Skyactiv-X tech just when governments were agitating to go 'full EV', meaning all that R&D may result in big losses because it wasn't rolled out (scaled up or down) to any other models than the 3 and CX-30. Maybe they had plans a long time back and the politicians changed their tune very quickly.

What a waste. I wonder how many other manufacturers were in the middle of similar R&D periods where they had to scramble (at great expense) to change to the EV route much earlier than anticipated and now are haemorrhaging profits because of it and the lack of (private) consumer enthusiasm for EVs at the moment.

In truth the SkyActiv-X was a flawed idea regardless of government policy on EVs. It was intended to provided the efficiency of a diesel with the benefits of petrol. Comparing data for the two 2025 UK engines, it does offer a marginal improvement in economy but with much greater complexity and cost (it adds about £2000 to the price).

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