Thankfully already happening.
I was in Northern Ireland last week (which appears to be more bio-diesel friendly than the mainland) 69p a litre for bio-diesel.
If I could get bio-diesel anywhere around South Herts/N.London/Essex borders I would but I haven't seen any garages selling it (especially at this price).
The amount of fast-food restaurants which use deep fat fryers should keep bio-diesel supplies going for a considerable time, although I believe incincerator plants do use the oil as well.
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Growler you are spot on as far as I am concerned. Although not a 6 pack, more of a Rioja fan ;) price is the absolute over-riding factor in fuel purchase, subject to the stuff not being poor quality and /or damaging to my car.
I couldn't give a fig for environmental issues. I will be long gone before any "greenie" issues arise, if they ever do and frankly my descendents can look after themselves!
Roger.
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SNIP
It\'s so much easier to delete than edit.
Remember that next time you try and swear. DD
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Sorry Mr. Moderator. I didn't realise that us petrol headed, beer drinking chaps would find my edited w*rd so offensive! Come on, do you honestly think they've never actually said the word themselves? To totally block an e-mail because it contained a self edited word is just a little 'nanny state-ish'....
Anyway, I respect the spirit in which the site is run and understand your need to prevent profanity so I live and learn - 'Certificate U' rated posts only!!
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Coincidentally after making this post I came across the ff in the local rag:
www.philstar.com/philstar/NEWS_FLASH0218200415_8.h...m
I can just only guess at the competition from the old-money planter cronies with their vast coconut estates to get in on that little act......... ;+)
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One of the most marvellous things about biofuel is that it offsets the emissions associated with fossil fuel use....I'll be the first to say most environmentallism is politically motivated claptrap, but the cycle to produce and burn a litre of biofuel offsets the emsissions of 2.5 litres of fossil fuel....In fact a Canadian woman raised this at a Kyoto treaty meeting and was told that this solution would not achieve the social engineering benefits that the Kyoto treaty was really about....What a scam. If the government added a proportion of processed vegetable oil to diesel, (as in France but on a much larger scale) it would be like reducing fossil fuel use by a significant percentage..
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Ultimately it's all a great big yawn....
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"What does interest me is the potential for self-renewing resources in Asia"
Plenty of potential for biodiesel from palm-oil as well out your way Growler. One of the reasons I like the idea of all this is that no matter what part of the world you look at, people can make their own fuel - two fingers to the oil conglomerates, most people are just trying to get along. Appeals to my self-sufficiency, do it for yourself ideals. The homebrew is going down nicely ...
If you want, I can do a bit of digging & see if there's anything happening in your neck of the woods so you can have a look at it if you're around. I seem to remember someone from the Phillippines doing a pilot project a year or two ago. Then again, could just have easily been Indonesia! Gawd, I suddenly feel like one of those tourists that ask "Dublin, that's near France right?"
andymc
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If you do a "well to wheel" energy study of rapeseed oil you find the benefits are not so great. Taking into acount the extra fuel used for transportation, cultivation, fertilisers etc. you find that this is about a quarter of that contained in rapeseed oil. The situation for irrigated crops in warmer climates is far worse looking at the figures I have. Then remember yet more energy is required for conversion into bio-diesel...
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I'm afraid nothing that could remotely be called a project is happening where I live right now. It's all about elections in 2 months.
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dieselhead
Youn mention a few "not so great" benefits - all the same "well-to-wheel" factors apply to fossil fuels as well, only without the mitigating effects of biodiesel.
A direct quote from one of the sites I posted before states: "In round figures, one hectare of land (UK) should produce an average 3 tonnes of rapeseed at 40% oil content. Pressed at a 90% extraction rate, this gives 1100kg of oil, which is treated with 150 kg of alcohol to give in excess of one tonne (1100 litres) of biodiesel and 120 kg of the valuable by-product glycerol. It requires around 15% energy input to produce the biodiesel - almost exactly the same as for petrodiesel extraction and refining ... Biodiesel is rated (DETR figure) at almost 12kWh per litre (only 7.5% below that of fossil diesel), giving a yield of 13MW per hectare per annum ... Added to this, the 2 tonnes of oil-bearing meal produced contains an estimated 4kWh of energy per kg, resulting in an energy yield of a further 8MW per hectare."
That was only in relation to biodiesel produced from new oil grown as a fuel crop - it doesn't even include used oil that is already being produced, and otherwise ends up as either a toxic waste product or as a means of passing on BSE in cattle feed. I'd rather use it as fuel than either of those alternatives!
I'm not suggesting that biodiesel is a perfect fuel, nor an all-encompassing solution to all our fuel/energy/air quality issues. I am suggesting that it is one of the most viable and readily applicable alternatives available today. Ideally we could all drive round in super-fast, super-affordable and super-efficient hydrogen or solar powered cars. We can't, not today and not for years to come. We can use biofuels, which are cleaner and in real terms cheaper than fossil-based road fuels, right now.
Growler - I'd suggest trying to make your own bio-ethanol for fuelling the new wheels, but I somehow suspect that like me, you'd end up drinking it rather than putting it in the car ...
andymc
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LOL Andy, I do have a few coconuts on the trees in my backyard, been wondering what to do with them, they're always falling on people and things anyway.
But then I remember the local Tanduay Rum sells for 48p for a litre bottle, maybe I should be putting that in my tank. Made from sugar=renewable resources, right? My (so rare to the point of being invisible to the naked eye) twinge of non-greenness guilt can be assuaged at last! Anyone know how to convert 90 proof to octane figures?
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90 proof? Nowhere near strong enough! Our local "brew" tends to be around 200% proof. Yours is probably sweeter though. A favourite trick over here, especially on cold winter nights, is get boiled sweets called brandyballs, melt and mix the whole lot together and drink piping hot. You do have to be prepared to redecorate the ceiling though, for when the top of your head blows off. Naturally, this is wrong and should not be done by anyone.
In seriousness, 90 proof would have too high a water content (been saying it for years, but no-one seems to listen) for burning as fuel without harming the engine. I think that it's been fairly common to run cars on a mix of bio-ethanol and petrol in Brazil - maybe Mark could tell us if he's come across it. If I have time I'll do some more digging to find out, but I'm on my way over to York today to be a godfather on Sunday, so it might be next week.
andymc
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You wouldn't be talking about Sid My Friend by any chance?
What a shame, I'll just have to keep drinking the stuff! But hey, that creates jobs right? That's PC isn't it?
But seriously I wish the local lads would do something with all that palm oil my country of exile produces other than fry my chips in it, tastes awful.
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Sid My Friend? Nope, no idea who/what that is. Straight over my head I'm afraid!
I read somewhere about how either veggie oil or biodiesel was extensively used in S. Africa - during the war years? in times of extreme fuel shortage anyway - unfortunately my memory is pretty hazy (I wonder why that is) and I can never remember where I picked up these particular nuggets of information.
andymc
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I think the use of biodiesel in Brazil is very high too, a large percentage of all diesel in fact....
Don't forget, that the fossil fuel industry, some governments and others are poo-pooing biofuels when it suits them too, they fund research by universities and laborotories to portray it as unrealistic.....The simple truth is, there's not the complexity and infrastructure-investement required to move towards biofuels, that they require with say hydrogen fuel cells. continual obsolescence is what props up what's left of the 'industrial revolution'..
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Sorry Andymc meant Siddiqui (Sid for short) which is Arabic for "my friend" and which is the staple bootleg grog for expats in (supposedly dry) Saudi. Somehow thought your post might reference this, given your allusion.
Perhaps one day in the future there will be a role for all this veggie stuff but I hear there's just been yet more reserves of oil discovered in Iran so not any time soon....
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Nope, just the meeting of my two interests in alternative fuels and booze! Nice tidbit though, I'll remember that one.
More reserves in Iran, eh? That'll make a pleasant change from all those nasty unstable places that are hostile to the oil-thirsty West - you know - the ones where oil is usually found ...
Slightly TIC perhaps, but the point being that we would have less cause for international conflict and hostility if we exploited our own potential for fuel production more fully. It's part of what I alluded to when I mentioned the cost of fuel in real terms - how many platoons are needed to ensure the uninterrupted supply of waste cooking oil from school canteen to local processing plant? NB Comments about the youth of today are inadmissible!
On another point, anyone been keeping an eye on price trends of crude over the last 5 years or so?
andymc
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I just filled up with my first commercially available biofuel at a normal roadside forecourt - Rix Petroleum near Horncastle, it was called Bioblend 5, so maybe it only contained 5% BIODIESEL, I have searched the web, but can fin no ratios for bioblend.
Maybe I'm romanticising a bit, but I'd much rather my money went to small family businesses and British or European farmer's families, than giant global oil corporations.
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Sooty, it's fairly common to indicate the proportion of a biodiesel blend as a B followed by a number. So what you have used is called B5 - in other words, 5% biodiesel mixed with 95% derv, or ULSD. The most common ratios seem to be B5, B20, B95 and B100 (the pure drop!), although I have also come across B80 and B90.
andymc
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Sooty all you need to know here:
www.rixbiodiesel.co.uk/
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