Hi there,
Shortly I will have the need use an A frame type car recovery trailer to transport cars on fairly long journeys (upto 500 miles per day) and I am looking for thoughts on the best towcar.
Budget is limited to around 2k as I dont really want to put massive miles on a good car and destroy it whilst towing !
Thoughts so far have been:
XM 2.1 TD Estate/Saloon
Xantia TD Estate/Saloon
Volvo 850 Estate
Scorpio Estate/Saloon
Omega Estate/Saloon
Merc E200 Estate
Bmw 520 Touring
Some sort of people carrier Toyota Lucdia ?
and maybe a 4x4 eg Disco or Toyota
It needs to be my everyday car also so it must be eco too !
any help and thoughts are appreciated :-}
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I use a 3.0 Omega for (very) occassional towing of the caravan, usually loaded to the gunwhales.
Definitely couldn't say it was cheap, but it tows very nicely...I'm lucky to get an average of 15 - 16mpg on a long journey.
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A colleague is selling an S Plate privately owned from new 90,000 full service history Vectra 2.5 V6 already with tow bar, electrics etc etc. Circa £2700 Regards Peter
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W123 Mercedes. 300TD. Then you can have style as well as pull!
Spares are cheap, they go on for ever.
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If you are going to be towing faitrly heavy things regularly, it may be better to consider rear-wheel drive rather than fwd.
Any other BR's agree/disagree?
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I have just read an interesting artical on ex police T5 estates.
They sound just the ticket. Any thoughts ?
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Downesi,
The XM 2.1 TD was, I think, voted 'towing car of the year' some years ago...as I have posted before, I still miss them and the one before last, J reg, is still going great at 180000 miles.
If you can find a good one, go for it.
Matt35
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Thanks matt35. I was looking at one today
tinyurl.com/33n6d
First one.
Is there anything to look out for particularly ?
I\'ve amended the link for two reasons. First one was picked up by Rob (below). The second was that the link displayed your full postcode..... Now you may not have a problem with that, but I thought it better to be safe than sorry. I\'ve made one up that lists the same car.
Hope that\'s ok.
ND
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Downesi1,
I can only add to Matt's recommendation. I used to work for a caravan dealers in the North and most of the seasoned caravanners used Pug/Citroen turbodiesels.
By the way, it may help you to use www.tinyurl.com if you want to post any more tortuously long addresses. Just tap in the address on the site and it'll spew out a shortened one for you, for free. Very handy.
Cheers
Rob
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ND, Rob thanks very much for you suggestion I will put them to good use !
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Downesi,
Depends how that car has been looked after - obvious thing to check is the condition of the suspension spheres - and the cost of regassing/replacing if needed.
As I replaced them every 3 years (company cars) I never had any experience of problems - but my mate is still happy with the J reg and keeps promising to let me drive it.
Good Luck,
Matt35.
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My short experience of towing taught me that diesels really are much better than petrol. They'll pull the trailer without a struggle, and the fuel consumption won't die a death, either.
However, past experience, which may not now apply, was that buying cheap old diesels was not so easy either.
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Downesi,
You will need something fairly hefty since I think it is generally recommended that the laden trailer should be only about 85% of the weight of the towing vehicle. 100% is OK if you are experienced but it shouldn't be more (not sure if that is a recommendation or the law -someone will no doubt tell us!)
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PS...
Just found the old brochure which says;
"Add a towing capacity of 1.5 tons and rear brakes which adjust automatically to the load being carried and the reasons behind the XMs'success in the Caravan Club Tow Car of the Year become apparent"
This does not specify the diesel - so check.
Matt35.
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Agree that it's (the XM) probably a brilliant caravan tower (as are all the hydraulic Cits in my experience because of the suspension and brakes as well as excellent XUD/HDi diesels) but 1.5 tons as a tow capacity ain't much if towing a trailer with a car on - or is it?
Maybe the solution is a big 4x4 (with bull bars to add weight!!!!)
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Ah!
It's nice to hear reference to the XM which is not whingeing or disparaging. Yes, it's an excellent tow car.
I would recommend a 2.5TD as the XUD appears to have a few headgasket issues at 2.1 size. The higher temperatures associated with towing would do it no favours, either. But as to finding a late 2.5....
The other option is a cheap 4x4 such as the Vauxhall Monterey SWB - basically a Mk1 Isuzu Trooper with a very uncool badge and sharper depeciation as a result. Make sure you get one with a twin-tube radiator. Some were fitted with a woefully inadequate single-tube radiator.
I regularly tow up to 2700kgs long distance with my LWB Monterey with no problems.
I run a '97 2.5 XM as well, but have not towed with it as yet.
HTH
rg
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I have a 2.1td Pugeot 406 which of course shares its engine with the Xantia. I found the engine to be excellent for towing an 1100 kg caravan. It will return around 27 to 28 m.p.g. whilst towing at between 60 and 70 m.p.h. on motorways, and was very relaxing to drive as there was still plenty of power available. I don't know how you stand with the towing weight limits, but if the Xantia was up to the job, it does of course have the advantage of self levelling suspension as previously mentioned. I wouldn't rule one out. There are plenty of expert outlets for spares, repairs and good advice for these vehicles available.
Reggie
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Ah! It's nice to hear reference to the XM which is not whingeing or disparaging. Yes, it's an excellent tow car. I would recommend a 2.5TD as the XUD appears to have a few headgasket issues at 2.1 size. The higher temperatures associated with towing would do it no favours, either. But as to finding a late 2.5....
Agreed RG.
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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I'm still worried about Downesi towing a trailer WITH a car on it. According to the site below
www.clicreports.co.uk/
on figures provided by Citroen the max towing weight (trailer with car) for an XM is 1500 kg yet an XM weighs about 1380 so you wouldn't be able to tow an XM on your trailer (unless the trailer was extremely light). A Xantia is a similar weight,most Mondeos are heavier (1400 -1500kg) so unless you are going to transport very small cars on your trailer, neither the XM or the Xantia are going to be any use. If you exceed these max towing weights I fear that you will invalidate your insurance (and perhaps be a danger to yourself and others) It needs investigating VERY carefully before you make a decision!
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P.S. Most Land/Range Rovers (not Freelanders)have a max towing weight of 3500kg, LandCruisers between 2800kg and 3500. However, whether this is safe on the roads/motorways is another matter - it may be OK for an agricultural trailer limited to 20 mph but I wouldn't fancy it at 70mph and certainly not to do 500 miles in a day as you say you might!
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Surely the issue is the maximum "Gross Train Weight" as per the VIN plate? This is what vehicle+trailer+load must not exceed...
rg
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Interesting... basically it sounds asif i need a a 4x4 or a very heavy tow car to counter balance the weight of both the trailer and the the car on it ! Now i'm really glad i posted this question !
It now seems that it may be best to sell or p/x my 406 coupe v6 for some sort of Japanise 4x4 Diesel......
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Downesi1,
The issue is not so much "pulling power" but "stopping power"!!
rg
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Downesi1, The issue is not so much "pulling power" but "stopping power"!! rg
I seem to remember that from driving various Xantia's in the past that they have excellent brakes, am I wrong in saying that they are linked to the suspension ? A few times I remember driving off before the suspension has fully lifted only to find the brakes not working !
So I would assume that the XM also has the same system ?
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Downesi1
Glad to be of help earlier!
With reference to the current debate about safe towing loads, it matters not one jot about the size of the engine, or how good the brakes are. It comes down the permitted towing weights published by the manufacturer. On more than one occasion I refused to sell a caravan to someone on the grounds that their car would be totally unsuitable to pull it.
Try www.monoposto.freeserve.co.uk/towing.htm for an link to information about the maximum permitted towing weights for loads of popular cars.
Interestingly, the authors of the site say that the only car that they could find that was capable of pulling a two tonne racing trailer (with car, presumably) was a Ford Scorpio Estate.
Hope this helps
Cheers
Rob
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BBC.Top Gear have a Jap 4x4 for sale, needs a bit of work to the body work but in good running order.
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BBC.Top Gear have a Jap 4x4 for sale, needs a bit of work to the body work but in good running order.
He He !
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I'll add my bit, now you've had all the best answers!
Check out.
www.towsafe.co.uk
&
towsure.co.uk
They give some more technical blurb.
One thing not mentioned, are you looking to use this car/unit in connection with a business?
If so, you'll likely come into the realms of tachograph requirements, should you go down the 4x4 route.Lots of legal stuff to consider, then.Now wheres DwightVanDriver, when you need him??
VB
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a quote from towsafe that says it all really !
"The best outfit would be the heaviest, most powerful car towing the lightest caravan; the reverse would create the worst. The aim is to achieve the best power-to-weight ratio so you can get the most pleasure from your caravan and maximum economy from your car"
thanks to everyone that has helped me out on this subject :-)
Downesi1
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>>So I would assume that the XM also has the same system ?
It sure does! The XM is a superb load-lugger! We don't hear nearly enough about the "plus points " of Citroen hydropneumatics...
rg
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I have always been puzzled as to why 4wd vehicles are supposed to be so good for towing.
A cursory review of basic principles will show that what is needed is a vehicle with self levelling rear suspension combined with a huge Deisel with torque all the way up from tickover,plus monster brakes.
This ought to mean almost any sensibly designed estate car,since only one 4wd has a big enough engine and the rest are grossly underpowered.Bearing in mind their dangerous handling characteristics we can easily see why.
There are no estate cars like this,although a C5 with a 3 litre deisel would be good if they made one.
So its a V10 Towrag then.
Just think how much better it would be if it only weighed 1750 kilos!
Why any manufacturer thinks that a 4wd which is slow with a 3.5 petrol is somehow going to be OK with a 2.5 deisel eludes me.
Especially as the aged rover V8 must have been the easiest engine to deiselise in history.
I suppose a 330d might work,but the motor is a bit sporting for towing,although you could probably get its torque curve modified by one of the chip maestros.But its a bit of a waste of a nice car.
robin
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4x4s are "good" towing vehicles because they are heavy and this makes the "outfit" stable and legal. This is the problem with an XM as I and others have pointed out - it is a brilliant towcar (as are all the hydraulic Cits) for caravans/light trailers which are very light (and flimsy - just look what happens to caravans in accidents) but the XM is just not heavy enough to be able to tow a car trailer legally because the trailer will exceed the weight of the car/towing limit and/or the train weight will exceed the manufacturers limits.
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