In Newcastle they are no-car lanes where anything other than cars can use them.
Mal
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Mal
"In Newcastle they are no-car lanes where anything other than cars can use them."
Could you be a little more specific please. I assume you don't mean vans and trucks, but what about motorcycles?
C
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In Reading motorcycles can use the bus lanes.
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I have asked Transport for London to justify their stance, but as expected simply got no reply.
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In answer to your question Cardew, yes,I do mean vans and trucks.
In big white letters on the road "no car lane" and I have seen taxis, motorcycles, trucks, large vans,and even car based vans,so it must mean what it says,anything other than cars.
Mal.
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There can't be any possible justification for that - that's simply discriminatory. I suppose the powers that be must see everyone else as worthwhile/trade/acceptable, whereas car drivers are just congestion and pollution.
Councils are even worse that central government.
Mattster
Boycott shoddy build and reliability.
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I've often wondered why taxis are allowed to use bus lanes. How does Ken make the gigantic leap from a large car carrying one person to it being public transport?
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Didn't taxpayers spend an enormous sum of money on Taxis for Ken when he could have bought a travel card and used any of his precious busses, tubes and trains for a fraction of the cost.
MPs etc should be forced to travel by the means their party and their policies support. When politicians are forced to travel by busses instead of Jaguars, then we will have a different approach to transport policy.
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I can't speak for central London's bus lanes but the ones around here (SE London) are worse than useless. It's not just taxis that use them, but nearly every vehicle on the blimmin' road! And the policing of them is non-existent. The bus lane on Bromley High Street frequently has cars and vans parked all the way down it - I have never seen a ticket on any of these vehicles.
Still, they have just installed a nice bus lane camera at the end of the one on the A21 at Bromley Common as you come into Bromley. It's very satisfying to be driving behind someone illegally using that lane, knowing that he (or she) is going to have a little piccie taken!
Cheers
Rob
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Similar story here in Stockport. You get a queue of traffic being good and leaving the buslanes free and the usual idiots who decide they are driving a 5-seater bus who dive down the inside. Nothing is ever done. Parking is the bus lanes isn't usually a problem, but considering the A6 is a major road, I'm surprised parking is allowed at all in some places and that the no parking isn't enforced more in others as this is what causes most of the holdups.
Actually, the bus lanes themselves cause some holdups outside peak times as very few people seem to realise they are only in operation 7-10 and 4-7 and avoid them at all times.
A rant aside, but I feel it would have been nice if Stagecoach had speeded up their peak timetables to take advantage of the reduction in journey times these offer. As it stands, the buses just wait even more time at the stops than the did before. Last time I got a bus to work when the car was in I spent as long waiting for a bus to turn up as my journey to work by car is (and the buses are supposed to be every 3 minutes) then as long again on the bus waiting time at 2 or 3 stops down the route...
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A bus lane is a device to speed buses through traffic jams which would not be there but for the bus lane.
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Tonight, I drove down our local main road. It's a very busy road and a nightmare at rush hour times.
It became a whole lot worse when the double laned road was made narrower to make way for a cycle lane. That took months of work, and I honestly have never seen a single cyclist down it.
This summer, work began on the road again. We knew not what it was for, only that half the road had been cut off for roadworks. This week it all became clear. The upheaval which has been going on for at least the last 6 months had been to remove the cycle lane to make way for a bus lane.
The lane is not yet complete; however tonight was my first experience of it being in partial operation. The result was that mainstream traffic was gridlocked all the way down the road, whilst 2 buses sauntered merrily past without a care in the world.
As soon as I came to the part of the road where the bus lane ended, traffic started to move again.
This used to be a fast-moving if busy main road. Now it has become a joke. Not sure what they're doing with the cyclists who a couple of years ago were deigned worthy of preferential treatment but now seem not to be! But to hold up *that* much traffic in favour of a couple of buses seems crazy to me.
There might be a bus-driving member of our forum that can give me some sort of answer to that? ;)
Incidentally, and slightly digressing (well I'm female, I can't help it) one of our bus-driving BR members has enlightened me on the amount of empty buses that run around our surrounding areas during the night. The waste of money must be quite astounding.
HF
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There might be a bus-driving member of our forum that can give me some sort of answer to that? ;) one of our bus-driving BR members >>
Hmmm. I wonder to whom HF could be alluding ;-)
>>Incidentally, and slightly digressing (well I'm female, I >> can't help it)
I should co-co!
To me, bus lanes can be a God-send. They can shave five or sometimes ten minutes of a busy commuter run, BUT only if they are properly policed. However, I can also see the other side of the argument as when I am driving the car I am often extremely frustrated that I can't use that ever so tempting bit of red tarmac to my left. And I agree that if only two buses used the lane, then it seems a trifle superfluous, espceially as they've been working on it since at least July.
And to address your second point, yes the money spent on these services is astounding but I do think that TfL (Transport for London, or London Transpport as it used to be before it went all trendy) have got it right. Back in t'good old days (when men were men, women were women and small green creatures from Alpha Centauri were small green creatures from Alpha Centauri) bus companies used to run late services to provide a service to the community and not merely to make a profit. Now TfL are doing the same. Tonight I was working the 464 New Addington - Tatsfield service, which is quite a rural route. I took about £45 between 1530 and 2030, and about £6 between 2130 and 0100. On my last trip, I only carried two people but these two people wouldn't have been able to have the night out that they so clearly enjoyed without this bus service (taxi fares would have been prohibitive.
I do feel quite strongly that we, as a whole, have become transfixed with the attitude that a bus service has to make a profit and if it doesn't then it must be axed. But what about the poor blighters that live on that route? How do they then get about? Bus travel should be about social inclusion and, if you can't afford a car or taxi fares, you should at least be able to go out for the night, even if you live a rural area.
Cheers
Rob
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As a fairly regular bus user I agree with you Rob. The bus service isn't perfect but suffers from a lot of bad press, quite often from people who don't use it. I'm sure services vary considerably around the country but here at least the service is excellent and often a good deal faster/cheaper/less hassle than driving, parking etc. The point you make about inclusion is also valid and we surely must fund adequate services for deprived and rural areas for the reasons you mention. I think a lot of the criticism (possibly understandably) comes from car drivers who feel their space has been impinged upon to make way for bus lane. What we all need to remember though is that in urban areas there simply isn't the space to accommodate unrestricted car use and for everyone who demands more roads, car parks etc. there'll be others who don't want their houses demolished and open spaces eroded. A balance is what's required and certainly PT could be far better co-ordinated but IMO, overall, services here have improved over recent years and I'd like to see a national PT system we could all be proud off which would take some of the strain off our bulging at the seams road network.
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I do feel quite strongly that we, as a whole, have become transfixed with the attitude that a bus service has to make a profit and if it doesn't then it must be axed.
I'd take a slightly different slant on this. It is really only the bus companies that take this view of 'profit or withdrawl' for services. I'm told Stagecoach insist every *journey* has to make a profit and don't even allow cross-subsidy from busy journeys to evening ones. On top of this, each arm of Stagecoach has a 'profit target' to meet - I believe Stagecoach Manchester is something over £20m.
This results in unviable journeys being withdrawn, thus starting a downwards spiral. If you can't depend on the bus in the evening then you have more reason to buy a car or use an existing one more, so you get out of the habit of using the bus at other times so bus ridership goes down and more services have to be withdrawn. The point is then reached where the service is so poor that no-one would consider the bus as an alternative.
I've made a similar argument over road tolls - if there is no alternative to the car then what are we supposed to do? However, you can't force a private company to spend some of their profit providing a service that isn't in their interest.
The trouble as I see it is that public transport should be owned by and run for the benefit of the public. When you start bringing profit in to the equation the end user will always get a worse deal. It would even benefit people who would never dream of using the bus or train as if others are given the option and it's seen to be a realistic one then traffic levels will fall. Of course, there is also the point that evening and early night services would also reduce incidences of drink driving - if there is an alternative way home then the temptation to risk it is less.
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the flip side to this whole thing is the morons who do not realise that Bus lanes are not operational 24/7, and start honking you when you glide past them and 30 other donuts using the non-operational-at-this-time bus lane!
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Don't quite a few of our glorious leaders use taxis ? I might be being cynical but couldn't that explain why they are treated favourably ?
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I might be being cynical
LOL!
That has to go in my quote of the year book!
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I wonder; does anyone have genuine knowledge of any place in the world where public transport is a delight and people willingly, voluntarily and gladly use it in preference to driving? I mean somewhere where there is a real choice, rather than somewhere such as Central London where I suspect many would RATHER use their car but deliberate and costly traffic restriction put them off.
If there is such a place, why does it work for them and not us?
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Ooh really? Well that's one then. Why does it work there and not here, any idea?
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Trains and buses are on time, regular, clean, modern. Good value (government subsidy). Comprehensive network, even small villages are part of the rail system. You can more or less get to anywhwere in Switzerloand by train / bus with ease and the scenary of course helps. OK Switzerland is not a big country but it does have some big mountains in the way. If you looked at a map of the rail network for the country you'd be amazed at the maze (pun intended) of lines.
I'm a little biased since I used to work for a Swiss company and like the way they go about these things.
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Does that mean that a higher proportion of income tax goes on the system, and if so, at what cost elsewhere?
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Does that mean that a higher proportion of income tax goes on the system, and if so, at what cost elsewhere?
Presumably it means everyone gets around more efficiently, enabling them to contribute to the economy and stump up the taxes that pay for the system. Seems like a sensible arrangement to me.
Although I usually find using public transport depressing (because it's so neglected) there are certain circumstances where it's the lesser of two evils. I'm off work today and need to nip out and do some Christmas shopping. The bus fare into town is 65p each way. It would cost £6.20 to park for more than four hours. Even ignoring environmental considerations, there really is no contest.
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I wouldn't challenge your view Welliesorter but can only assume there must some huge regional variations in PT. Certainly I don't find the majority of buses/ trains I use in this part of the world depressing (apart from the graffiti that is). Maybe I'm lucky but the buses I use tend to be either new or just a few years old. Likewise the trains - my recent journeys into central London have nearly all been in fairly new rolling stock which is both clean and quiet. The stations are cleaner, information boards far superior and even the announcements are now clear. I can't remember the last time my train was late or cancelled. This is all in very stark contrast to the time when my wife and I used to commute daily when the trains were all slam door types, everything was filthy and trying to get information about your train was impossible. Timetable targets used to be unheard of but now we're all told how late the trains are and consequently focus on that and berate the service. So far as I can see the main problem is the variation in quality but there's no doubt that in many respects things are better than they were. Equally there are major problems at peak times when delays and overcrowding are most obvious and, of course, most annoying. I wouldn't wish to reduce the stress involved in finding your train to work regularly delayed/cancelled but that is only part of the equation and surely not a benchmark by which to judge and then write off the whole system. Of course there's always room for improvement but by and large I'm very happy with PT in these parts and regularly use it on those occasions when using the car either isn't really necessary or is just too much hassle.
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Sorry, not very well worded - I should have said "trivialise the stress involved in finding your train ....."
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I'm sure there are big regional variations. I'm lucky in that I live near a main road close to a city centre where many bus routes converge. Therefore public transport is useable for some journeys. As I said in an earlier post, if there's a choice of a £1.30 return bus fare or £6.20 for car parking I know which I'd choose.
On a good day, with no delays or overcrowding, the train remains my preferred way of travelling by a substantial margin. I'd much rather stare out of the window or read than do the driving myself. On the other hand, I've had some awful journeys by train, especially close to Christmas when drivers start going AWOL (I've been told by other staff that they do this) and erratic buses are provided as a replacement. This has meant taking four or five hours for a journey that would be 45 miles by road.
I can't help thinking I'm in sympathy with some of your views Volvoman: I didn't take a driving test until I was well into my thirties and still generally walk if I'm only going a mile or two. I'm actually encouraged by what you say about trains in your area. I dare say there are some here who'd regard me as an anti-car fanatic who deserves to be stoned to death with old spark plugs.
That said, I'm glad I now own a car so I don't have to worry about the annual (unscheduled) Christmas Eve train cancellations and the fact that the normally plentiful buses stop running at 6pm on Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve as a matter of policy.
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Welliesorter - so I'm not the only one accused by some of being an anti-car fanatic here then :-)
Seriously, I couldn't be without a car but that doesn't mean I have to use it regardless of where I'm going and whatever options exist. Like you I walk a lot and use PT where I can. If everyone who could do that did so, the roads would be a whole lot nicer for ALL of us. Where there is no acceptable PT a car may well be the only option but where alternatives exist why don't more people consider using them if only for certain journeys where doing so would actually be cheaper/easier and, who knows, not so bad after all.
Cardew - totally agree on the taxi blocking bus lane comment.
Madf - so I'm not the only cynic here then either :-)
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