Totally agree that you should go back and kick up a lot of fuss. Best scenario, look for the hole to be treated with rustproofing (ok the edge of the hole, not the hole itself!)
However, I must admit that I am a wee bit surprised that there is someone in the backroom that would put their car into a dealer to fit a new number plate!! I know we all have varying degrees of technical knowledge but maybe not!
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What I'm wondering is whether to go in really hard and demand that they restore the vehicle to its original condition, i.e. pay for a new tailgate, or whether that would be unreasonable, unrealistic, etc. I can't imagine anyone being very happy about finding holes drilled in their car's bodywork, albeit behind a number plate, and at the moment I still have steam coming out of my ears.
As for the DIY suggestion, sure thing next time.
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Well, I reckon you should try and get your money back at least!
They should have held the plat in position and drilled from inside, or just stuck it on with sticky panels.
When you get your money back or whatever, ust fill the holes with something to stop them rusting or leaking water and dust. Fibreglass on the inside?
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I am very busy and not greatly practical, so it seemed to me convenient and sensible to get the number plate fixed while the car was in for MOT. I would hope that I'm not alone in never expecting a garage to drill holes in bodywork without at least phoning and saying "there is no other way we can do it".
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sorry to add gloom here, but my son had L plate VR6 and tailgate rusted around numberplate holes - turned out the hatch on VWs was not galvanised and, thus, not covered by long warranty. I posted this info here (2-3 years ago) and HJ expressed surprise. My son ended buying new tailgate!
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And a bit of brightness to counterbalance the gloom: my VR6 is seven years old and has not a spot of rust on it. So, it's no surprise that I'm ready to throttle the idiots who opened up the risk of rusting.
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Are the holes in line ?
This is what Vauxhall do ? since when have V/W been benchmarked their work by what Vauxhall do ? Seems very shoddy work to me especially when they have drilled extra holes for you ! Go back there and do some shouting !
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Yes, I bet Vauxhall are so used to mounting them on plastic bumpers, where its not a problem. They should have used self adhesive pads,
There seems to be a lot of manufacturers using silver screws now which are left bare, instead of those plastic collets and caps (which fall off)
Mercedes started it, they have left the screws shoring around here, anyway, ever since I can remember.
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Is that formal legal advice, PU?
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At long last I have received a written response from the drill-happy garage:
"As expressed we do not feel that the drilling of the panel would affect any body corrosion warranty.
The holes drilled would in fact be sealed by the type of screws fitted and we would reiterate that this type of drilling for the purpose of fitting the rear number plate is considered quite normal within the motor industry."
I would be very grateful for any opinions on these issues.
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well here's my opinion.
When they took off the old reg plate they could have just layed the old over the new and marked where the new holes need drilling to line up with the holes already in the bodywork.
Yes fair enough the screws may be of a design that seal the hole (bit unsure myself) but that means that there are two holes now in the body work with no cover, therefore water running down the back of the plate could be getting inside the tailgate through the old holes. Surely creating holes in bodywork is not "considered quite normal in the motor industry" In our industry if we leave a hole that lets water into the car it is considered VERY unsatisfactory by both our customers and ourselves.
Ask the garage how they would react if they were asked to trace a water leak and found that it was coming through holes in the bodywork left by another garage !!!! I can bet that they use it as a reason to call the other garage every name under the sun and that "you should use us instead of them".
there you go my two peneth
(Glass-Tech)
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Roger,
Unfortunately this shows the decline in standards that seems to be happening in every line of engineering in this country. Because it would have taken an extra 5-10mins to do the job the fitter couldn't be bothered so chose the easy option.
How can drilling the bodywork not affect the corrosion issue?
These people are just complete idiots. I would talk to a solicitor about this issue as it seems utterly stupid to drill a piece of undamaged bodywork and then not expect rusting on a car of this age.
Best of Luck
Marcos
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No, I don't think they are 'complete idiots', at least in my terms. They sound like careless corner-cutters with little respect for others' property entrusted to their care. They will just be fobbing you off with a lame excuse which means very little.
I wouldn't have thought this incident was worth involving the law, however - unless you want to throw good money after bad. Just plug the empty holes yourself with some sealant.
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Example of couldn't care less from a main Honda dealer: fitted a couple of speakers (Honda dealer option @£160) to brand new car. Subsequent repair work (2 more visits) to fix speakers in properly and to refix door cards carried out using screwdriver, causing more damage. MD appeared completely blase - said screwdriver only possible tool, therefore damage likely. Needless to say, I no longer take car near the place, and have expressed dissatisfaction to UK HO. Other garage now used appears competent and careful - Ridings of Preston, if I am allowed to say something positive to balance this up!.
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Andrew,
I have built up a large, well respected electrical contactors and if any of my blokes carried out sub-standard work they would be classed as complete idiots. They get paid a lot of money and they all know what is expected of them and they know the consequences. This all boils down to a decline in standards, which I find unacceptable. This country used to be a world leader and is now becoming a laughing stock due to peoples incompetance. A lot of the large tender's are now going out to foreign companys as the customer knows they will get skilled tradesmen and not half trained monkeys for the same money.
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Marcos, I don't want to take issue with anything you say. But neither do I see why drilling holes in bodywork can be compared with any kind of engineering. Monkeys can do it - they just need to be careful and thoughtful.
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I think that there is a good case for a motor industry standard for number plate attachment hole positions. I'm sure that there is no reason why cars can't come from the manufacturers with mounting holes already incorporated (and hence rust-proofed to the same standard as the rest of the panel), and why number plates can't be supplied with matching holes pre-drilled.
Unless anyone knows different............
--
L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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Snail, you might have to standardise number plates as well. Other countries have plates of different shapes, and some are much smaller than ours - which is why it used to be impossible to fit our plates in the slot provided on foriegn cars.
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Not only other countries but manufacturers too. They all seem to have different sized plates nowadays so standardising would be almost impossible.
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...........but manufacturers too. They all seem to have different sized plates nowadays so standardising would be almost impossible.
The whole point of having a standard is to ensure that everyone does the same thing. When I say "standard" I am referring to BS, SAE, FVMSS, etc, etc.
If there is no standard for car and/or number plate manufacturers to work to for number plate size and mounting hole configuration then there jolly well ought to be. There are standards covering just about everything else on motor vehicles. Having worked in motor vehicle and motor vehicle component development for the whole of my 40 years, I just know that it would not be impossible.
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L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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I'm with the snail on this one.
If all cars had two bolt holes at a stndard distance apart, say 200mm then all that would be required is an adaptor plate for any country where plates are of a different size/shape.
easy really.
(Glass-Tech)
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Unfortunately I think that drilling holes as you've described is indeed 'standard practice' at most garages. They probably gave it to the apprentice or 'training scheme' lad to do. Usually they manage to drill the holes slightly out of line so that the plate sits at a jaunty angle.
I guess every now and again they put a hole in the wrong place - so customer gets a free extra hole and a mystery water leak.
This is what you get in a country with poor training, low minimum wage and franchise owners who want to be millionaires within 3 years of starting up.
I remember a motor trade friend of my fathers started up a SAAB garage in the early 1980's. He had a very bad reputation in the area and paid badly, but within 5 years he was living in a massive house and no doubt was worth £1m+. He wasn't bothered about the standard of work his fitters were turning out.
I think things have changed a little in that the profits in new cars have declined a lot - but at the end of the day it comes down to money. I long ago discovered that there are very few competent technicians about - and not many at main dealers. If you want a job doing properly (and you have the knowledge), do it yourself. As I've said before, dealers don't recruit their technicians from Oxford and Cambridge (no offence to any technicians reading this).
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You're more likely to offend Oxbridge types... like me... who are not universally renowned for being technically dextrous or over blessed with common sense.
Roger: suggest you write a stinking letter to the garage. Then fill the hole yourself with fibreglass; having treated any rust/risk of rust with suitable rustproofer. Total expenditure 5 minutes in Halfords, 10 minutes of your time. Then post the letter on the website and we'll all sympathise. Put the original of the letter under the wheels of the car, drive over it a few times, and then put it in the bin!
With an old and worthless (no offence intended) car, you're better of forgetting the whole thing!
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If you are referring to my otherwise pristine VR6 as old and worthless, offence is caused! blooming marvellous car ? had it from new, never going to part with it. That\'s the point: I care about this car (as I do about the others too). Oxbridge types should know better. (No offence intended ? but who knows which college you passed through?)
I am waiting to hear from the legal department of the insurance company. Unless they say \"yes, you really do have a strong case against this garage\", I will settle for wrenching a new undrilled number plate FOC out of the garage and fitting the thing myself with adhesive on the fairly broad collars of the original fixing points.
Speaking of which, any further tips on the best way to seal the holes ? inside and out ? would be much appreciated.
If anyone wants to know which Vauxhall dealer to avoid, contact me offline via the mods. Or, suss it out: their group has just been taken over by Pendragon and I live equidistant from Luton and St Albans.
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I think I know the one Roger.
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Roger - assuming that your spare holes are hidden by your numberplate, I would smooth any rough edges and stick a square-inch of PVC tape over each one. That does not deteriorate (at least in the likely lifetime of your brilliant car) and will exclude any rainwater.
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Oh, and Roger - sounds like you must live in 'Arpenden - used to go to school there.
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I always use Outdoor Sticky fixers.
Look at all the numberplates where the hole is drilled throught the plate on a black letter, which allow moisture to fill the void where there is no lamination between the front plastic and reflective backing. 2 years later new plateneeded for the MOT.
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I wonder how these 'cowboys' fix plates to Vauxhalls. If they used the Vauxhall screws (cross head with a captive washer) on Roger's Golf I don't see how these could seal the holes on bare metal as they are designed to go into either factory fitted plastic mountings on the rear or use a metal clip on front bumpers.
From my experience of owning and replacing plates on Vauxhalls they actually have a pretty good arrangement if used properly; all cars for at least ten years have had factory suppied plate mounting points spaced 270mm apart, all you need to do to get the plates on straight is stick on some masking tape, mark the centrelines with a pencil and 135mm back in each direction from the centre along the horizontal centreline and then drill with a 6mm drill. If I was a vauxhall dealer I'd make up a template or jig so that I could drill all my plates quickly and accuratly - bet most of them don't!
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sorry, I'd never heard of a VR6 Golf. Having looked at autotrader (do you really need 2.8l in a Golf...) a 7 year old one might cost 4-5k, so be worth 3-4k trade in if you're lucky. It is an oldish car, and I really don't think it's worth giving yourself a heart attack over, though I can understand that you never want to part with it, and that it's worth much more to you than these numbers, and that it's a much nicer car than the ones I've found etc. etc. etc.
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