My L-reg 1.6SE Astra has suddenly started leaking coolant like crazy when the engine's running. It's a constant drip of 2-3 drips per second and will easily leave a big puddle on the floor.
I can't clearly tell where it's coming from but it appears to be from somewhere around the water pump. The timing belt was changed less than a month ago - could that have anything to do with it? In my opinion it's only recently got worse.
What is causing me to panic slightly is that the coolant quite clearly has oil in it - I'm kind of hoping this is just oil it's picked up running down the side of the engine because I changed the oil the other day and accidentally spilt some! (Cue horrendous burning smell for next three days...)
Any ideas? Please? According to Vauxhall a new water pump (if it's that) will set me back £170 including labour and if it's the head gasket (which I hope to hell it isn't) I don't even want to guess at how much it will be. There doesn't appear to be any oil in the coolant in the expansion tank (which runs dry very quickly) but the plastic has turned a horrible brown colour, but has been like that since I got the car.
Has anyone seen this problem before, and could help me out?
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Undo the cover of the cambelt at the top and pull it back far enough to be able to shine a torch down to see if you can see any seepage from the pump. What may have happened is whoever changed the cambelt damaged the 'o' ring seal between the pump & engine block. Depending on whether or not you've got a belt tensioner, the water pump has to be rotated to tension the belt. I'm not rubbishing your mechanic for one moment, but whenever I've changed a belt I've always aired on the side of caution and changed the water pump at the same time. In the long run it's cheaper as you have to slacken off the pump anyway, and it saves on paying labour charges twice over should the pump fail before the next belt change.
What's the mileage of the Astra? Has the pump ever been changed before?
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On Vauxhalls which use the water pump to tension the cambelt, some mechanics just slacken the water pump, fit the new cam belt, rotate the pump to re-tension and bolt up. This tears the water pump seal which is "bonded" to the block and the pump after 40-80k miles, and subsequently leaks. The correct approach is to remove the water pump, which will drain all the coolant, clean the pump and block, fit a new sealing ring, liberally coat in silicone grease and re-assemble. This is why I always fit a replacement water pump and change the coolant when changing a cambelt.
DD might not rubbish mechanics who do this the faulty way, but I will, they're rubbish. Some of them are employed at Vauxhall dealerships, so don't think that paying franchise prices will avoid the problem.
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Thanks for your advice - it's beginning to sound like the timing belt change and water pump failure are related. Car has only done 40,000 miles (exactly, actually, ticked over yesterday!) but is 10 years old and has spent much of that time stored in a damp garage.
Work was done at a Vauxhall dealership and they've agreed to look at it for free under the timing belt warranty on Monday - if it is their fault they'll fix it for free and if not, well, I'll argue for a substantial discount as a couple of other garages have told me the pump should have been changed at the same time. (They've quoted £170 for a water pump change, but it might be cheaper to get them to do it when the car's stripped down on Monday.)
So you think it's pretty likely that it's coming from the water pump?
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So you think it's pretty likely that it's coming from the water pump?
Without physically looking, it's hard to say. But just having the belt changed and from experience of the seal tearing when the pump is rotated to tension the belt, then chances are that's where it's coming from. A decent mechanic will at least remove the pump, clean the mating surfaces and fit a new 'o' ring and apply a layer of silicon grease for good measure. The Vaux dealership I use have previously recommended fitting a new pump with a belt change. Not compulsory, but advisable. Not sure if they still do it now or not though, as my latest car has a cam chain, and my previous car to that I did the belt changes myself.
The reason for the £170 charge for a pump change is due to having to remove the belt to do the job. The pump itself only costs ITRO £30 to £40, which is why it's best to have it changed at the same time as the belt. As previously mentioned, you aren't paying the labour charge twice over.
Good luck on Monday, and hope they sort it out for you at their expense.
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.. DD might not rubbish mechanics who do this the faulty way, but I will, they're rubbish. ..>>
This case, if it turns out to be what DD suspects, illustrates yet again why I believe that so many engine failures often happen so soon after a cam-belt change. All the Vauxhall & VW/Audi engine damage cases ( 4 or maybe 5 so far that I personally know of) have been due to bodged cam-belt changes by garages.
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>>..illustrates yet again why I believe that so many engine failures often happen so soon after a cam-belt change ..>>
Another case to add to my file - see Bilgewater's post of 19 Oct 03 timed at 07.13 ; thread :
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=4&t=16...3
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Blimey. It's going to be a very slow and careful trip to the garage tomorrow afternoon! I think I'll print out this thread in case the garage quibble, though I suspect I'll be able to get them to meet me halfway on the cost as several other garages have told me that they insist on the water pump change on older Vauxhalls along with the timing belt.
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Well, went into the dealer today who diagnosed it as a water pump failure - wouldn't buy the cambelt change arguement as apparently my 1.6i engine has a separate tensioner - I wasn't in the mood to quibble as I've got the flu. Coughed up the £170 and watched Finding Nemo while they changed the pump.
I'm still inclined to be suspicious as it seems like coincidence for both to go at almost exactly the same time... but I'll live with it. I'll also have to live with my local garage coming up to me and saying that they could have done the job for £60 cheaper, but I do feel a bit safer going to the dealer as this seemed to be quite an involved job.
Thanks for your advice everyone!
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How anyone can admire Vauxhall engineering after this saga.. move water pump to tension cam belt. Apalling design...
madf
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How anyone can admire Vauxhall engineering after this saga.. move water pump to tension cam belt. Apalling design...
Don\'t scoff. Vauxall aren\'t the only ones who have / had this set up. IIRC, Ford are / were another.
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My water pump seal failed just after a Vauxhall main dealer changed the cam belt for the first time at 36000 - surprise, surprise. This bit may be a poor design, but the rest of the engine just goes on & on with 200,000 miles in sight.
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This design is/has also been used by VW on single OHC engines. It has the advantage of simplicity - no separate tension roller to fail, although some designs have both.
As long as the pump seal is changed when the pump needs to be rotated and is stuck, there is no problem. It also requires very little extra dismantling.
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When the wife had a 1.2 Nova I changed the cambelt twice in its 100+K life and didnt have to slacken the pump.
The old one would slide off the sprockets and the new one would go back over the sprockets with the aid of a large screwdriver.
A friend who has a local garage said that he also did this with the Nova.
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